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It wasn't smart to post the photo, but it scares me that some people agree with the court on this one. Law 101 is your friend, people. I really hope some of you aren't in leadership positions.
HappyTexan:"Teachers are role models. Posting a sex ad with your picture regardless of which sex you are looking for is NOT the behavior of a role model to children."
People might want teachers to be role models in the same way that people want their sports heros, or businessmen, or parents, or [insert any other random group] to be a role models, but being a role model is not an intrinsic property of any of the aforementioned groups. It is an intrinsic property of a job, only when that role is specifically codified in the contract.
The argument that public servants "should be" role models is usually predicated upon a circular argument, as people conflate contractual issue with the intrinsic property issue of the job function.
People typically assume public servants (e.g. teachers, judges, politicians, etc...) are role models because they accept the claim a priori that the preexisting public service criteria and related laws itself are justified, as if the terms we impose on public servants are somehow an irrefutable axiom that can't be questioned. But to the extent that public servants (not just teachers) are often treated as "role models" under the preexisting system, has to do with the fact that the employment policies and contracts themselves tend to contain language which implies that the public servant should be a role model in their conduct, else they are subject to firing.
But that aforementioned contractual fact does not answer the equally important (if not more so) and separate questions:
(a) whether a specific job function is inherently a "role model" position as an intrinsic job function. In the case of teachers, the only intrinsic functions are that of a teacher. Even acting in the capacity as a temporary guardian of the child, in loco parentis, is not an intrinsic function of the teachers job, it is mostly an implied legal construct.
(b) whether we should have a role model position codified into the contract such that it treats public servants to some arbitrary "higher standard" and in doing so, affords public servants less liberty than the average person.
There is no logically intrinsic role model component to the job of teacher, or most other public service positions. There is only that which is outlined and agreed to as a job function. Hence, the role model argument is entirely a function of the contract, but we can certainly question whether future contract provisions for public servant should demand that they be held to some kind of "role model" standard. And that is what I propose we do, the current court case being discussed not withstanding. I propose we cease to hold public servants to any kind of "higher standard," as there is no reason the terms of a public service contract should afford less liberty to the public servant than the average person, so long as what they are doing does not appreciably and directly interfere with the performance of their job. Government may win on this one on a technicality, however, as the conduct being sought may have been illegal (hence the ordinary person would not have the ability to engage in it, not just the public servant).
Last edited by FreedomThroughAnarchism; 08-24-2011 at 09:20 PM..
Is it illegal for adults to post explicit personal ads on Craigslist in California? No? Then he shouldn't be reprimanded - period. This is a blatant case of homophobia & bigotry, and anyone who doesn't see that is either in denial or full of crap... I'm guessing it's the latter in the case of this OP, based on their history here.
Btw, I recall reading (back when this story first broke) that he was "discovered" by a parent at the school. All I can wonder is, what were they doing cruising the M4M ads on Craigslist? Hmmmmmmmm, methinks some kid's daddy is on the DL.
Thanks Goodness there's some sanity left in this world (even in California!)
The ad "...solicited oral and anal sex, in graphic terms, and included photos of..." (the man's)"... face and private parts,"
The original "...firing had been overruled by a state commission that said the ad was unrelated to his ability to teach middle-school students. But the appeals court disagreed, saying Lampedusa's conduct showed he was unfit to teach and "serve as a role model" for his students."
This man continued to teach during the appeals process. I think the appeals court got it right.
You can do that on Craigslist? Well I guess if you can advertise about being a prostitute anything goes there. BUT that shows the man is crazy for doing that. Seems he wants his students to see it all and that is disgusting!!!
You can do that on Craigslist? Well I guess if you can advertise about being a prostitute anything goes there. BUT that shows the man is crazy for doing that. Seems he wants his students to see it all and that is disgusting!!!
I'm sorry, did they say he was posting this on a children's website, or that he'd distributed it to his students? I don't remember reading that, nor do I recall Craigslist allowing minors to visit their adult personals section... of course they can still click "I am over 18," but that's certainly not the teacher's fault. If a kid did happen to stumble upon the ad, I guess their parents aren't doing a good job of monitoring Internet usage!
Was his placing this ad with photos stupid? Perhaps. That still doesn't make it illegal, nor does it mean he's incapable of teaching middle school. Do you think your unmarried teachers were all chaste virgins? We probably wanted to think that, since it's kinda gross to imagine they have sex lives - but I'm sure most of them do/did.
Is it illegal for adults to post explicit personal ads on Craigslist in California? No? Then he shouldn't be reprimanded - period. This is a blatant case of homophobia & bigotry, and anyone who doesn't see that is either in denial or full of crap... I'm guessing it's the latter in the case of this OP, based on their history here.
Btw, I recall reading (back when this story first broke) that he was "discovered" by a parent at the school. All I can wonder is, what were they doing cruising the M4M ads on Craigslist? Hmmmmmmmm, methinks some kid's daddy is on the DL.
So people are homophobic now because they don't like to see their kid's teacher's genitals online??? WOW how far we have come to let it all hang out. Disgusting.
Plus maybe the parent got suspicious of the man and learned he had posted on Craigslist so they checked. You can't be too careful now about who teaches your kids. Not with the blatant sexual abuse from teachers of all kinds.
I'm sorry, did they say he was posting this on a children's website, or that he'd distributed it to his students? I don't remember reading that, nor do I recall Craigslist allowing minors to visit their adult personals section... of course they can still click "I am over 18," but that's certainly not the teacher's fault. If a kid did happen to stumble upon the ad, I guess their parents aren't doing a good job of monitoring Internet usage!
Was his placing this ad with photos stupid? Perhaps. That still doesn't make it illegal, nor does it mean he's incapable of teaching middle school. Do you think your unmarried teachers were all chastevirgins? We all probably wanted to think that, since it's kinda gross to imagine they have sex lives - but I'm sure most of them do/did.
Believe it or not there was a time when we didn't even think about it one way or another. It was none of our business and most teachers kept their private lives private. If we had any questions on the subject we were thought to be weird. How times have changed. Now we want to know what teachers do in their bedrooms and give us a picture of it.
Teachers are role models. Posting a sex ad with your picture regardless of which sex you are looking for is NOT the behavior of a role model to children.
You may see teachers as role models, but some of us just want them to do their jobs, and leave it at that. In fact, I could make a conservative argument that teachers are NOT role models since many conservatives believe that values should be taught by family members, not by teachers or school systems.
Even if they are role models, I don't think they should have to be role models 24 hours a day. They're adults, and they have private lives outside of work.
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