Street light cameras: Threat to freedom or enforcing needed laws? (accuse, how much)

[11thHour]

Safety devices they are not. Cities put them in as revenue generators. I swear I read an article of municipality that put them in, only to have an increase in accidents at those intersections. So they pulled them out and returned them to the mfr. And then the company they bought them from sued them. I can't find the article so I may have things mixed up. Regardless, no, they should not be installed.

[Memphis1979]

Originally Posted by 11thHour

Safety devices they are not. Cities put them in as revenue generators. I swear I read an article of municipality that put them in, only to have an increase in accidents at those intersections. So they pulled them out and returned them to the mfr. And then the company they bought them from sued them. I can't find the article so I may have things mixed up. Regardless, no, they should not be installed.

My step mother works at the water department, just happens to be just down from the counter where people pay their fines.

The county has a revenue surplus now. Won't last long though, people in neighboring communities that were coming to town to shop are going to start boycotting.

[subsound]

Originally Posted by Roadking2003

Hmmmm...was that a red light camera ???

And did it prevent the clerk's death???

Running red lights is the leading cause of accidents and deaths. The point was to say recording things is not necessarily an evil in itself. Recording some one may not stop it from happening...but it will make sure the person who did it is not free to do it again with impunity.

"Each year in the United States, people that run red lights are a top cause of car accidents, resulting in nearly 1,000 wrongful deaths and about 90,000 cases of personal injury. In short, this is a serious problem."

Red Light Running is a Top Cause of Auto Accidents

Drunk drivers, who are most often at fault for running red lights and causing accidents, are always repeat offenders (http://www.mesaduiattorneyblog.com/2011/05/drunk-driver-is-a-repeat-offender-in-one-day.shtml - broken link). Catching them early, fining activity that wouldn't cause as much harm, is a good way to stop people being hurt and killed later. It is certainly cheaper then funding an officers salary. Considering how many officers have been cut recently, when people want the same level of enforcement, that seems important.

Otherwise you would have to pay more taxes to have a live person doing the same job...are you willing to do that?

That certainly misses the other point of my reply to the linked post, in that the poster thinks that enforcing red light laws is a conspiracy from the British crown.

[d4g4m]

Cameras mounted on traffic lights are nothing more than a revenue generating scam and has nothing to do with 'it's for your safety'. If you do a search, you will find numerous accounts of the camera company getting caught reducing the 'yellow' time to make more money. The city/county pays nothing to have have the cameras installed and they split the fine with the camera company usually on a 60/40 basis.
They shouldn't be called red light cameras, they should be called revenue cameras.
You will also find that there are more accidents of rear end collisions at camera locations than intersection collisions before the cameras were installed. A study was conducted that showed that if only 1 second was added to the yellow time, red light running would be reduced by 90% Do you really think the cities with cameras want to add 1 second to the yellow time? Of course not. They wouldn't make any money.

[andrea3821]

I see no problem with red light cameras, and I don't even care what reason they are put in. If you run a red, you are doing something illegal, period.

I got hit on my way to work on St. Patrick's Day, it was by a lady coming home from work and her blood sugar was high and she was supposedly rushing home to get insulin (not sure I totally believe that, as insulin-dependent diabetics cannot work an 8 hour day without insulin). Anywho, my light turned green and I started to pull out and then heard screeching tires. I turned and saw her coming but it was too late for me to avoid her, so I just stopped and she hit me, I watched it like it was in slow motion but there was nothing I could do.

I was 16 weeks pregnant at the time.

It scared the CRAP out of me. I went by ambulance to the ER b/c I was concerned about the baby (even though my airbags did not go off since the body of my car was not hit, just the left front wheel, so the sensors didn't pick up on the impact, I guess), and because my back got a little twisted when I was hit and started hurting immediately. Add car accident pain to normal low back pain during pregnancy. Not fun at all. If I hadn't stopped when I saw her coming, she would have T-boned me instead of just hitting my wheel. My front and side airbags would have come out and I potentially could have lost the baby.

Because of the accident, I could not go to work that night, which upset the schedule at our restaurant (my husband had to work open to close that day, since I normally close; I also had to take it easy the next few days b/c my body was hurting so badly, which meant other people picking up my duties). Because of the accident, I have been dealing with two different insurance companies, getting medical bills that have to be forwarded to my insurance company which requires me to call every company I get a bill from, which is a total PITA. Because of the accident, I had to get a rental car for three weeks, which luckily I was reimbursed for from the other lady's insurance...and that car was not as gas efficient as mine (I drive a Ford Fiesta) so I had to pay extra in gas costs. Because of the accident, I have been in pain for the last almost three months, although it is finally easing up some. Because of the accident, I had to deal with major psychological distress due to worrying about the pregnancy, I had cramping and was told by my OB to go back to the ER if it got worse, which it did, so I went after work three days later at 2am and got treated horribly...which just added to the psychological distress I already had.

Is this what y'all are condoning by not ticketing people for running reds just b/c a cop didn't see it, a machine did? And my accident was very minor in comparison to people running full speed through a light b/c they're drunk, or something like that. It could KILL someone.

I have more of a problem with the cameras that check your speed b/c there is more of a potential for technical errors. But still, if you're speeding, you're speeding, and that's illegal, so again, I don't feel sorry for people who get tickets.

I don't see it as a revenue generator, but even if it was...it's not like they're enforcing a law that's not already on the books.

Bottom line is that if you don't want a traffic ticket, don't do something illegal. Simple enough.

[Glitch]

The Anchorage City Assembly tried setting up photo-radar back in December 1995. It did not go well from the beginning. People would deliberate park their vehicles in front of the camera, or pelt the camera with water balloons. Others fought back through the legal system. On July 31, 1996, a panel of three district court magistrates considered the case of four motorists accused by the cameras. After hearing expert testimony and deliberating for two months, the panel concluded that the only evidence in the case was provided by a company that kept 70 percent of the revenue. The panel found that the ATS-paid witnesses were people who "had a great deal at stake financially and who will testify to whatever it takes to convince the court in a given case." As such, their evidence was deemed unreliable and the tickets dismissed.

As a result of the ruling, Anchorage courts refused to convict drivers who contested their citations. By November 1996, Superior Court Judge Elaine Andrews dismissed 1100 pending photo tickets because 120 days had elapsed without a hearing for drivers who had filed court challenges.

It was later decided by the Alaskan Supreme Court, in a completely unrelated case involving the Anchorage Parking Authority, that only sworn law enforcement officers may issue citations. In this case they were referring to civilian contractors who were issuing citations for not having a valid registration tag, an expired I/M sticker, a broken turn signal, or the parking meter has expired, etc., but their ruling could easily be applied to devices such as photo-radar or intersection cameras.

Traffic cameras are used in Alaska, but only for weather and observation purposes, not to automatically issue citations. These traffic-cams are also available on-line.

Road Weather Information, Transportation & Public Facilities, State of Alaska

The enforcement of all laws needs to stay in the hands of sworn law enforcement officers, it should never be privatized. That is one area where government must maintain its monopoly.

[Lincolnian]

The length of yellow lights is not uniform. In many places where red-light cameras have been installed rear-end collisions have increased causing more accidents not less.

Some lights are not properly timed to the speed limit on the road. If it is a 40 mph speed limit and the light turns yellow there should be adequate time for a car to stop safely after the light has turned from the posted speed limit. That is definitely not the case regarding many lights in my area.

The police know this and most use good judgement when evaluating if someone ran a light. The camera just shoots the picture and mails the ticket. In many cases the ticket collection is handled by an outside private firm.

[1984vt]

Street light cameras is another "freedom" sacrifice we make for "safety". It is just another encroachment on the general principles of freedom. We fall for this "reasonable" sacrifice scenario all the time. The fact that we allow companies to obtain information about us like credit repositories etc for the "convenience" of expediting our wait time for goods shows that we are being led tiny step by step to an all knowing, all powerful government. The society describe in 1984 is just about here.

[Darkatt]

Originally Posted by Memphis1979

My hometown has installed red light cameras everywhere. Not only do they check to see if you ran a red light (or yellow, or barely cross the line by a foot), but they also check your speed while going through the camera.

Good

Should this be illegal? We all have had times where no one is at a light and the thing won't change. Or a bug hitting the wind shield right between your eyes long enough to distract you to stop just a hair to far across the line. Should we be getting tickets for this?

If it won't change, then you're on your own, a police office pulling up as you decide to go through the light is probably going to tkt you just as the camera does.

The line is easy enough, you should already be preparing to stop, so if a bug hits the windshield, your going to STOP braking because you got distracted?

I've long said that we shouldn't enforce speed limits or things of that nature because if I drive 500 miles at 90mph and never cause anyone any harm, why should I get a ticket for that? I didn't hurt anyone, I didn't cause any damage, what harm have I done?

There are roads, (I think in Montana for one) that have no speed limits, go enjoy... But on roads that have posted limits, they are there, and you can either follow the law, or suffer the consequences.

Reminds me to the guy who got a tkt for not stopping at a stop sign at 3 in the morning. He told the judge he shouldn't get a tkt, because it was night and he saw no headlights so no one was driving on the road but him, so why should he stop? The judge said, "It says STOP, it doesn't say, slow down if it's it dark and no one is coming".

So, whats y'alls opinion of traffic cameras? Should they be in place but for very blatant violations like running a busy red light? Should they enforce a 2mph over speed limit and crossing the line by a foot, or running a yellow light?

I like them, in the places they have been installed where I live, accidents, both fatal and nonfatal have been reduced dramatically.

BTW, yellow means prepare to stop, not go faster so you don't have to stop for the red light. Besides, if the few minutes a red light is going to hold you up is going to cause you problems, then try giving yourself more time and head out earlier?

[rbohm]

red light cameras are revenue enhancers pure and simple.