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So, it took Reagun 4 years to fix the mess left from Carter, is that what you are claiming? If that is the case, you are you guys on the right expecting a quicker fix from Obama when the mess Bush II left was MUCH worse?
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Originally Posted by steven_h
You can throw all the charts up that make your arguments sound credible, but anyone who had to pay bills, buy gas and pay rent during those 12 years will tell you that Carter was a horrible President and it took Reagan his first four years to turn his fiasco around.
Bush and Obama have combined to sucker punch this nations economy. You can't tell where one stopped and the other started. Bush was just the opener to Obamas' main act.
I've got a progressive friend that tells me that since Reagan said "let the debt take care of itself", obama has free reign, and the debt won't matter.
Is it "fair" to make them pay a higher percentage of their income?
I think so, when they pay less a percentage of their income than the middle class. The top 1% has the majority of their income from capital gains which is taxed at 15%, which is far less than what the middle class pays in taxes.
Borrowing from future generations by incrementally increasing levels of debt in the public and private sector.
This can be seen in a variety of ways, but mainly through increasing access to credit and borrowing for the common person, encouraging firms to take more risks, and relying increasingly on debt to fund the U.S. Government's obligations.
I am in total agreement with you on this. Let's not forget that it was government forcing the equal lending laws (Reinvestment Act) during Carters administration. Clinton put into place the ability for banks to take huge risks in junk bonds and REITs.
This created the perfect storm of an unsustainable housing bubble propped up by fiscally unprepared homeowners using their properties as ATMs. The government caused the problem and then came to our rescue, ON QUE.
You can't have it both ways. The government takes in quite enough to cover the needs of the citizenry. What they fail to do, over and over, is spend our tax dollars wisely. Always maxing out the budget (no matter where it's set) is a recipe for disaster. It doesn't matter which party is in charge, they are all guilty of it.
Speaking of party bias: I keep hearing Liberals saying that Republicans didn't say anything as Bush sold us down the river. Quite the contrary, we (most of us) felt betrayed as his second term unfolded. Where's the disgust for Obama doing the same to the left? Hasn't he broken nearly every promise that got him elected?
At this point I'm concerned that nobody really cares about this country, and only if there's a D or R in front of a candidates name. Gone is the "ask what can you do for your country not what your country can do for you" ideal. Kennedy was our last truly independent President and he and Robert were murdered for it. If this country is to be saved it has to be a mutual goal. The political machine understands this and they have done their best to make us fight amongst ourselves. People are addicted to partisanship and refuse to see that this mentality is a massive part of the problem.
I am in total agreement with you on this. Let's not forget that it was government forcing the equal lending laws (Reinvestment Act) during Carters administration. Clinton put into place the ability for banks to take huge risks in junk bonds and REITs.
if minority lending laws are the real cause of the problem , then why did bubbles also occur across Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand, and parts of Asia?
why didn't the poor, black parts of Cleveland, or black towns in the deep south, have a bubble like the rich, whiter parts of San Diego, LA, Las Vegas, and Miami? How did CRA cause old 1960's beach houses in my area to go from $350,000 to $1.5million, in about 30 months?
The real estate bubble wasn't caused by minority lending programs, it was caused by loose lending standards for everyone, including developers of commercial real estate, people applying for student loans, you name it. Show me someone who blames the CRA for the crisis, and I'll show you somebody who gets their news and information from Rush Limbaugh.
As far as Clinton goes, sure, he was complicit in all this. I just don't understand why so many far-right-wing conservatives keep pointing to Clinton, while barely glossing over the mistakes of W. Bush, if not denying them outright. It gives the impression that maybe they are biased in their interpretation of the facts.
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Speaking of party bias: I keep hearing Liberals saying that Republicans didn't say anything as Bush sold us down the river. Quite the contrary, we (most of us) felt betrayed as his second term unfolded. Where's the disgust for Obama doing the same to the left? Hasn't he broken nearly every promise that got him elected?
I actually saw John Stewart being very critical of this in particular, not long ago.
if minority lending laws are the real cause of the problem , then why did bubbles also occur across Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand, and parts of Asia?
why didn't the poor, black parts of Cleveland, or black towns in the deep south, have a bubble like the rich, whiter parts of San Diego, LA, Las Vegas, and Miami? How did CRA cause old 1960's beach houses in my area to go from $350,000 to $1.5million, in about 30 months?
The real estate bubble wasn't caused by minority lending programs, it was caused by loose lending standards for everyone, including developers of commercial real estate, people applying for student loans, you name it. Show me someone who blames the CRA for the crisis, and I'll show you somebody who gets their news and information from Rush Limbaugh.
As far as Clinton goes, sure, he was complicit in all this. I just don't understand why so many far-right-wing conservatives keep pointing to Clinton, while barely glossing over the mistakes of W. Bush, if not denying them outright. It gives the impression that maybe they are biased in their interpretation of the facts.
I actually saw John Stewart being very critical of this in particular, not long ago.
So the basic premise that we have been consistently misgoverned by both sides is a given. Now what? Shouldn't the left, and right, ween themselves off partisan politics and toss any politician that refuses to represent the people rather than pandering to vote getting? It's time for the promise breaking on both sides to stop.
You and I aren't that far apart in the scheme of things. Politicians (on both sides) must move to a position of honesty rather than perpetuating rhetoric and singular ideologies. All I see are both sides of the political spectrum being played to the same ends. We've really only had a single party posing as a duality for the last 30 years.
So the basic premise that we have been consistently misgoverned by both sides is a given. Now what? Shouldn't the left, and right, ween themselves off partisan politics and toss any politician that refuses to represent the people rather than pandering to vote getting? It's time for the promise breaking on both sides to stop.
You and I aren't that far apart in the scheme of things. Politicians (on both sides) must move to a position of honesty rather than perpetuating rhetoric and singular ideologies.
We have been misgoverned by both sides, but my perspective is that the GOP is far more culpable in this mess than the Democrats.
The problem is that if you express that view, rather than being seen as a conservative who wants to reform the Republican party, you're just accused of being a "liberal." Therefore I view the GOP as an unreformable "lost cause."
The Democrats are a different animal entirely. They have not been given the opportunity to screw up as badly as the Republicans have.
We have been misgoverned by both sides. My perspective is that the GOP is far more culpable in this mess than the Democrats.
The problem is that if you express that view, 9 out of 10 Republicans will assume that you're a Democrat, and go on the defensive, rather than make an honest assessment of the mistakes GOP politicians made.
How do you think I feel being a traditional balance the books conservative. Every time I railed against Bush I got thwacked by both sides. The left are deaf to conservatives that openly hated Bush policies, while the extreme right basically called us traitors. The level of partisan battle lines has become extreme on both sides and that is what will tear this country apart.
There really are people who are devoutly Un-American and they are loving this infighting.
How do you think I feel being a traditional balance the books conservative.
probably a lot like me.
i strongly supported Bush in 2000, I spent most of 2004 drunk and don't remember, and I grudgingly supported Obama in 2008. I liked Fred Thompson but the Jeebus bloc shot him down. I liked Ron Paul but the Chamber of Commerce types over at Fox News shot him down. I never seriously considered voting for McCain.
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There really are people who are devoutly Un-American and they are loving this infighting.
one of my favorite quotes is:
"Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice."
I would suspect that after three years of Obama, a few shots a day might be in order.
nah, national politics do not affect me psychologically like they do some people. i use strong language but in reality i am very detached from it.
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