Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I never said that people have the right to daycare. That is ridiculous, I was referring to the right to procreate. I never tried to tell you that all poor people were unlucky. In fact, if you go back and read some of my posts in this thread, you'll see that I acknowledged that some poor people are lazy, but this is not all poor people. Making blanket statements about poor people that you know nothing about, then saying things like "poor people are stupid and lazy" or "poor people shouldn't have chldren" is mean, it is cruel and it is also making a baseless generalization.
But nobody is denying them the right to procreate. All I said was if you have kids you can't afford, don't complain about it later. We all know who will wind up paying for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Factsplease
How about you find some stats proving that all or most poor people are lazy? Since you are into stats.
It's irrelevant. I am anything but lazy, I work 12 to 16 hour days, self employed. Yet I'm still broke, so I don't have kids.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Factsplease
My opinion and my compassion for other human beings is based on my upbringing and my life experience, not stats.
And I admire your empathy, but emotion will only get you so far in the real world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Factsplease
By the way, having money doesn't guaranty that your children will have a good life and unless the there's something you're not telling me, we both live in the same not-so-pretty world. My reason for why the human species is f-ed-up is obviously a lot different than yours.
If you can't give your child a good life, you shouldn't have one. I don't care if you're rich or poor. I'd say the same thing to anyone who couldn't give their kid a good life.
But if you can't afford to take care of your own kid, then you can not give them a good life, it's practically guaranteed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Factsplease
I am a person with a six figure household income who has been poor before, so I was at some point an example of a poor person who was not stupid or lazy and worked for a living. I worked my way up and did what I had to do to better myself. I know others who are doing the same and I know some people doing just the opposite. I know some people who have gone through a slump or depression and got out of it and made something of their lives.
Well I commend you for that. You did what you had to do. If more people were like you, would they be in this situation?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Factsplease
I understand that we are human and that just because a person is down on their luck or going through hard times doesn't make them doomed for all eternity or an evil, lazy and stupid person.
Strawman...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Factsplease
Some people are never poor because their family makes sure that they're not, it doesn't mean that they are the most self-motivated intelligent individuals. Of course we are not all born priveleged and while some learn earlier in life, some learn later. Until you have walked a mile in someone else's shoes, you have no idea.
I am currently walking in the shoes of a flat broke person. Thousands of dollars in debt, working long days and getting practically nothing for it (you know how it is with business). I've moved 6 times since winter of 2010 in order to keep my rent under a few hundred. I am choosing not to have kids because of this.
Again, I'm not evaluating poor people. I never said they weren't motivated. I never said they weren't intelligent. That's all irrelevant though. It doesn't matter how beautiful of a person you are. If you can't feed em don't breed em.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Factsplease
I am not one to judge and I stand by my opinion that I would rather see a compassionate, loving poor person have a child than a selfish, judgemental bully.
So would I. But this world doesn't run on compassion. Don't like it? Take it up with god.
That, but I'd also caveat it by saying just because you can feed em doesn't mean you're necessarily a socially responsible person squirting out 4 or 5 or more of em.
That, but I'd also caveat it by saying just because you can feed em doesn't mean you're necessarily a socially responsible person squirting out 4 or 5 or more of em.
Not at all. I just said "feed" cause it rhymed If you can't take care of them 100%, don't breed em.
I am speaking about the large class of people who are not "welfare parents" popping out 7 or 8 kids, but the working poor and lower middle class who are working their butts off trying to make ends meet, in monogamous/married relationships and choose to have a family. Somehow this group always seems to be left out of conversations where answers such as "just don't have kids" are proposed.
I hate to break it to you, but there are a LOT of people who finished college or graduate school and work full-time, sometimes more than one job apiece, who are still struggling to make ends meet. It is a fallacy that responsibility and self-control alone leads to a path of financial prosperity in this day and age. Yes, they are necessary conditions, but not sufficient. So I am comparing the well-to-do (some of whom I know from high school who actually did have babies while still in school while unwed, imagine that) to the lower middle class/working class, aka "the forgotten class" which seems to be growing and not shrinking. I have already stated that I believe people should be able to pay for the basic necessities for a family (i.e., not be on welfare for a prolonged time).
The argument still stands...don't have kids you can't afford.
But nobody is denying them the right to procreate. All I said was if you have kids you can't afford, don't complain about it later. We all know who will wind up paying for it.
It's irrelevant. I am anything but lazy, I work 12 to 16 hour days, self employed. Yet I'm still broke, so I don't have kids.
And I admire your empathy, but emotion will only get you so far in the real world.
If you can't give your child a good life, you shouldn't have one. I don't care if you're rich or poor. I'd say the same thing to anyone who couldn't give their kid a good life.
But if you can't afford to take care of your own kid, then you can not give them a good life, it's practically guaranteed.
Well I commend you for that. You did what you had to do. If more people were like you, would they be in this situation?
Strawman...
I am currently walking in the shoes of a flat broke person. Thousands of dollars in debt, working long days and getting practically nothing for it (you know how it is with business). I've moved 6 times since winter of 2010 in order to keep my rent under a few hundred. I am choosing not to have kids because of this.
Again, I'm not evaluating poor people. I never said they weren't motivated. I never said they weren't intelligent. That's all irrelevant though. It doesn't matter how beautiful of a person you are. If you can't feed em don't breed em.
So would I. But this world doesn't run on compassion. Don't like it? Take it up with god.
Lots of people complain about the cost of things and they are not poor. I am sick of people attacking the poor or anyone that is not like them. Sweep in front of your own front door and stop worrying about what's in front of everyone else's. You may not have been one of the posters in this thread that called poor people (and not some poor people but all) stupid lazy people who should not be allowed to have children but other posters did and I responded to them. People can complain about whatever they want to, no matter how much money they have in the bank or their wallet.
If everyone waited until things were perfect before they had children, humans would be extinct. Things are they way they are, not how people think they should be. It's called reality and I know that my purpose in life is not to bash or bully other human beings who have a different reality than I do. Apparently if someone is complaining about the cost of childcare, it is because they have a job. I will never attend a "let's bash the poor", gay, or whatever group the bullies decide on today party.
This inhumane cruel attitude that is running rampant is part of why we are where we are as a country as much as the lazy, do nothing crowd who feels that they are entitled. And as far as entitlement syndrome goes, the rich, the poor and the middle class have some of it but the reasons that they feel that they are entitled are a little different.
What if you could afford them at one time and then can't?
More than one person I encountered needing daycare assistance were either left high and dry by a cheating husband and were pursuing wage garnishment for the child support, or one or both of the parents had either lost a job and/or managed to get a new one at a much lesser salary.
It's not like you can give them back.
Sure, there are people who are stupid and breed like crazy. But I think, at least in today's economic climate, there are plenty who started out with a child(ren) they could afford and got slammed with unemployment or a medical crisis.
What if you could afford them at one time and then can't?
More than one person I encountered needing daycare assistance were either left high and dry by a cheating husband and were pursuing wage garnishment for the child support, or one or both of the parents had either lost a job and/or managed to get a new one at a much lesser salary.
It's not like you can give them back.
Sure, there are people who are stupid and breed like crazy. But I think, at least in today's economic climate, there are plenty who started out with a child(ren) they could afford and got slammed with unemployment or a medical crisis.
This question has been asked several times now, no response. The fact that many of the anti-poor posters in here make generalizations and assume that all poor people are poor because it's their fault and they shouldn't have children without ever thinking that maybe there were unforseen circumstances or things beyond their control involved just shows how narrow minded, inconsiderate and incompassionate some people are. As one poster pointed out, people are now taking pride in being cruel. Clearly if someone needs daycare, it' s because they have a job so it is not simply the poor, but the working poor that is getting attacked here.
Lots of people complain about the cost of things and they are not poor. I am sick of people attacking the poor or anyone that is not like them. Sweep in front of your own front door and stop worrying about what's in front of everyone else's.
I don't care what you do - until it affects me. Which it does, and will do so more in the future. I care about the future of my country too. Which doesn't look too bright with millions of kids being born into dependency.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Factsplease
You may not have been one of the posters in this thread that called poor people (and not some poor people but all) stupid lazy people who should not be allowed to have children but other posters did and I responded to them. People can complain about whatever they want to, no matter how much money they have in the bank or their wallet.
I'm not trying to quell anyone's right to free speech here. But as I said before, we all know who winds up on the hook when the parents can't take care of their own kids. That's my issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Factsplease
If everyone waited until things were perfect before they had children, humans would be extinct. Things are they way they are, not how people think they should be.
You're taking things to the extreme. I didn't say everything had to be 100% perfect, I said people need to act in a reasonably responsible manner. When 2,500 children are born into poverty every single day, it's a problem. That's far from a slight imperfection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Factsplease
It's called reality and I know that my purpose in life is not to bash or bully other human beings who have a different reality than I do. Apparently if someone is complaining about the cost of childcare, it is because they have a job. I will never attend a "let's bash the poor", gay, or whatever group the bullies decide on today party.
That's a very immature way to look at it. Reminds me of the times my parents got on my ass when I was a kid, I thought they were just being mean for the sake of being mean. But they weren't.
We are in an economic crisis right now, it ain't getting better, and the absolute last thing we need is millions of poor children being born helpless. Who is going to take care of these kids if the parents can't? The rapidly shrinking middle class? You? Who?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Factsplease
This inhumane cruel attitude that is running rampant is part of why we are where we are as a country as much as the lazy, do nothing crowd who feels that they are entitled. And as far as entitlement syndrome goes, the rich, the poor and the middle class have some of it but the reasons that they feel that they are entitled are a little different.
It's not inhumane and cruel to expect others to handle their own business. Not in the least. And even if it was, I don't see how being a "meany" would contribute to our decline as much as being a member of the lazy, do nothing crowd.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristineVA
What if you could afford them at one time and then can't?
More than one person I encountered needing daycare assistance were either left high and dry by a cheating husband and were pursuing wage garnishment for the child support, or one or both of the parents had either lost a job and/or managed to get a new one at a much lesser salary.
It's not like you can give them back.
Sure, there are people who are stupid and breed like crazy. But I think, at least in today's economic climate, there are plenty who started out with a child(ren) they could afford and got slammed with unemployment or a medical crisis.
Well I can only speak for myself but I've clarified my position on this. And anyone who says "don't have kids you can't afford" is obviously only referring to people who had those kids at a time when they couldn't afford them.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If you can't take care of them 100%, don't breed em.
