Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-02-2011, 08:12 PM
 
Location: MO->MI->CA->TX->MA
7,032 posts, read 14,488,806 times
Reputation: 5581

Advertisements

I certainly cannot picture and hope I never see the US adopt a pure command economy in my lifetime if capitalism fails. As much as I despise Wall Street, they're a necessary evil in the backbone of capitalism. Also, the #1 incentive for me to to work harder and smarter is the ability to make more money to buy goods and services which raise my standard of living and allow me to pursue my wants. If capitalism falls and this incentive is eliminated, I cannot realistically see myself willing to work as hard as right now.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-02-2011, 09:18 PM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,886,289 times
Reputation: 18305
Its not capitalism that is failing its investing more and more national wealth in programs for people who return no wealth but mearly consume. Too many depedent on too few.Its happening all aroud the western world really. in plcae that adopted capitalism where control markets failed for years they are booming. We just got fat and lazy from being the only coutnry to come out of WWII not pretty much destroyed and bankrupt.Many now are competing with third world for srewdriver skilled jobs that a chinese peasant can now do that they have the facities;materials and enrgy to do so.Its not just Japan but vhina;india.south korea.and coming vietnam. In the sciences and math they are killig us .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2011, 09:59 PM
 
4,410 posts, read 6,140,391 times
Reputation: 2908
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnarkar View Post
I certainly cannot picture and hope I never see the US adopt a pure command economy in my lifetime if capitalism fails. As much as I despise Wall Street, they're a necessary evil in the backbone of capitalism. Also, the #1 incentive for me to to work harder and smarter is the ability to make more money to buy goods and services which raise my standard of living and allow me to pursue my wants. If capitalism falls and this incentive is eliminated, I cannot realistically see myself willing to work as hard as right now.
So your sole incentive is more, more, more? What about having enough? What if an economic system was born out of the belief that all we need is enough? We don't need more, more, more. Capitalism has created a dog eat dog world. The vast majority of us got very little out of it despite our hard work. What else should we have expected from a system that sees greed as a virtue? My incentive is to do my best and be sufficiently rewarded for it. I have enough right now, and it's all I need. I see no reason to race to some finish line when I really won't be there to celebrate.

When capitalism fails AND if we somehow circumvent any planned tyranny of control, there will be many other systems available to us. I expect they will succeed on a local level until a larger system is created. Let's hope we are not restricted to making the same mistakes or that we simply recreate what fell apart.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2011, 10:28 PM
 
Location: it depends
6,369 posts, read 6,412,287 times
Reputation: 6388
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnarkar View Post
I certainly cannot picture and hope I never see the US adopt a pure command economy in my lifetime if capitalism fails. As much as I despise Wall Street, they're a necessary evil in the backbone of capitalism. Also, the #1 incentive for me to to work harder and smarter is the ability to make more money to buy goods and services which raise my standard of living and allow me to pursue my wants. If capitalism falls and this incentive is eliminated, I cannot realistically see myself willing to work as hard as right now.
Capitalism is not capable of failing, only of being subverted and brought down.

It is the only organizing principle of society that requires us to be of service to the rest of society in order to prosper. Free people enter into transactions in which each party wins: the grocer wants your money more than he wants the merchandise, the customer wants the goods more than she wants the money. At the cash register, everyone wins.

If the grocer desires to make more money (OK, call it greed if you want), then he must figure out a way to help more people feed their families...he must be of greater service. Where is the downside in that?

The gouger, the short-changer, the cheat who seeks inordinate short term gain at the expense of his customer will soon be out of business. The tiny fraction of companies cited as examples of the failure of capitalism, Enron and Worldcom etc., do not exist anymore--capitalism cannot tolerate corruption.

Those who have no interest in being of service to the rest of society hate capitalism. In their view, the act of breathing entitles them to the necessities and common luxuries of life. This is far less moral than capitalism, as their free living must come out of the pockets of others.

The free market allocates resources based on how we vote with our wallets. Did you ever notice that the grocery store never has a huge oversupply of bananas while lacking apples? That wherever you go, you can always find a gallon of gas or a gallon of milk when you need it? That when more workers with particular skills are needed, wages go up to attract more people to that field? The market--capitalism--does all that.

Now, when you post a rebuttal to tell me how far off I am, how out-of-date, remember that these principles have served me very well in my business and in my life. They work for me, and they explain how the United States became the most productive and wealthy society on the face of the earth, in all of history.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2011, 10:37 PM
 
6,137 posts, read 4,863,777 times
Reputation: 1517
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhouse2001 View Post
My incentive is to do my best and be sufficiently rewarded for it. I have enough right now, and it's all I need. I see no reason to race to some finish line when I really won't be there to celebrate.
What about the freedom for each individual to make that choice? If someone wants to toil away for their entire life to get rich, how does that harm you? The more capitalists we have competing, the more we produce, and the better it is for everybody because they have access to the results of those peoples' labor for a lower price (supply and demand).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2011, 10:41 PM
 
25,021 posts, read 27,946,153 times
Reputation: 11790
Capitalism is not going to fail, mhouse2001. How can it fail if it hasn't existed for a while now? What we have in the U.S. is a corporatist economy where the winners are hand-picked by the government and the losers toil into misery. That's not capitalism, that's fascism
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2011, 11:02 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,016 posts, read 12,583,826 times
Reputation: 9030
Capitalism is a word coined by the enemies of the system and it's ironic that people who believe in the system we have here n Canada and the USA refer to it as CAPITALISM.

Capitalism as it was coined is always doomed to failure because what underlays and holds the entire system up is exploitation. The expliotation of people, the environment, other and weaker countries, anything that can be exploited in the name of the god of profit.

On the other hand I believe that a well regulated "Free market system" even though that phrase in it's self might be a little contradictory, is mankinds best hope for a free and just secular society. It's an undisputable fact that the most successful societies where the people are the most satisified have these types of free market systems.

In order to craft such a system requires great wisdom and cooperation from all the different shareholders in the system. It also requires constant tinkering to keep things as just and equible as possible. Taxes can not be too high that causes a loss of people willing to invest and work hard as owners. Minumum wages must be high enough to allow workers to obtain their basic needs and so on and so on. Without this kind of free enterprise you end up with a country like Mexico and I fear greatly that the USA is headed right in that direction today and the pace is excelerating.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2011, 11:18 PM
 
25,021 posts, read 27,946,153 times
Reputation: 11790
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
Capitalism is a word coined by the enemies of the system and it's ironic that people who believe in the system we have here n Canada and the USA refer to it as CAPITALISM.

Capitalism as it was coined is always doomed to failure because what underlays and holds the entire system up is exploitation. The expliotation of people, the environment, other and weaker countries, anything that can be exploited in the name of the god of profit.

On the other hand I believe that a well regulated "Free market system" even though that phrase in it's self might be a little contradictory, is mankinds best hope for a free and just secular society. It's an undisputable fact that the most successful societies where the people are the most satisified have these types of free market systems.

In order to craft such a system requires great wisdom and cooperation from all the different shareholders in the system. It also requires constant tinkering to keep things as just and equible as possible. Taxes can not be too high that causes a loss of people willing to invest and work hard as owners. Minumum wages must be high enough to allow workers to obtain their basic needs and so on and so on. Without this kind of free enterprise you end up with a country like Mexico and I fear greatly that the USA is headed right in that direction today and the pace is excelerating.
You have to remember that neither the U.S., Canada, or Mexico have had free market systems for a long time. When the government starts to write up regulations after being lobbied by Big Business, the system then ceases to be a free market and goes into a fascistic one. Not the Hitler kind, but the Mussolini kind. He envisioned the economic system we have today, and it's the dominant form of economic system we have in the West today. In a way, looks like Mussolini had the last laugh after all
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2011, 11:23 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
8,182 posts, read 9,217,313 times
Reputation: 3632
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnarkar View Post
I certainly cannot picture and hope I never see the US adopt a pure command economy in my lifetime if capitalism fails. As much as I despise Wall Street, they're a necessary evil in the backbone of capitalism. Also, the #1 incentive for me to to work harder and smarter is the ability to make more money to buy goods and services which raise my standard of living and allow me to pursue my wants. If capitalism falls and this incentive is eliminated, I cannot realistically see myself willing to work as hard as right now.
We have nothing close to capitalism, we have crony corpratism.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2011, 11:24 PM
 
2,673 posts, read 3,249,644 times
Reputation: 1996
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnarkar View Post
I certainly cannot picture and hope I never see the US adopt a pure command economy in my lifetime if capitalism fails. As much as I despise Wall Street, they're a necessary evil in the backbone of capitalism. Also, the #1 incentive for me to to work harder and smarter is the ability to make more money to buy goods and services which raise my standard of living and allow me to pursue my wants. If capitalism falls and this incentive is eliminated, I cannot realistically see myself willing to work as hard as right now.
Gus Speth

Read him
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:26 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top