How would a transition to a far left system like communism happen without violence? (nationalist, death)

[Casper in Dallas]

Same way it would shift to a right-wing utopia like the Germans had in the 30s and 40s, violence.
There are no utopias and never will be because of one reason, MAN isn't evolved enough to put aside his own greed for power and things and to work for the good of the entire species. Is what it is folks and FYI; no extremist form of government, left or right, will take over this nation, the Vast Majority of Americans are Moderates and do not tolerate extremist ideas for long.

[GuyNTexas]

Originally Posted by Phantasy Tokoro

Pretty much this.

Drastic changes won't ever happen without violence.

Also, true communism cannot happen, because humans by nature are greedy idiots.

That's true .... however, most change is not drastic ... it is accomplished slowly and incrementally, and goes unnoticed.

But communism can definitely happen, because it is ALREADY happening here. If you don't believe that (and most don't) it's because it's been implemented gradually. But don't believe what I say .... study the Ten Planks of the Communist manifesto. Every single one of these goals are in varying stages of completion right now.

1) Abolition of private property - (effectively completed) property tax; eminent domain; zoning; Bureau of Land management; the Forrest Service; Department of the Interior; Federal Parks, just to name a few.

2) A heavy progressive or graduated income tax - (Completed)

3) Abolition of all rights of inheritance - ( partial/in progress) Federal and state "estate" inheritance taxes; Probate Laws and procedures.

4) Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels - (partial-in progress) Government seizures under DEA and Homeland Security, IRA tax liens and seizures, executive orders for Federalizing private property; Water Rights, mineral rights, etc.

5) Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly. (Complete) Federal Reserve System is a private monopoly controlling the currency and credit of the nation ... sets interest rates and controls the volume and flow of money.

6) Centralization of the means of communication and transportation in the hands of the State. (Complete) Federal Communications Commission (FCC); Department of Transportation (DOT) The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), Executive orders; mandated driver's licenses, vehicle registration, and Department of Transportation regulations.

7) Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. (Relatively Complete) - The Department of Agriculture; Department of Commerce; Department of Labor; Department of Interior; the Environmental Protection Agency; Bureau of Land Management, Bureau of Reclamation, Bureau of Mines, National Park Service, IRS corporate regulations,.

8) Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of Industrial armies, especially for agriculture. (Complete) Department of Labor; Various equal rights movements, particularly Women's Liberation creating a two "income" families which are almost required now to survive ... 19th amendment of the Constitution, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, various Socialist Unions, affirmative action, the Federal Public Works Program, FDR's "New Deal" started this ball in motion.

9) Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the population over the country. (In-progress) Transnational Mega Corporate Farms; and the division of the country into 10 Regions by FEMA, and many other behind the scenes efforts like EPA regulation of CO2; Agenda 21; Sustainable Development; Smart Grid, Smart Meter; etc.

10) Free education for all children in government schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. (Complete and self explanatory)

Now, the more overt signs of totalitarianism is all around you .... creation of the Department of Homeland Security; legislation such as the Patriot Act and Military Commissions Act; Open Discussion of lawful and needed "Torture" and Rendition, to include declaring US Citizens enemy terrorists and revoking citizenship and rights of due process; TSA and the electronic strip searching and aggressive physical screening; establishment of "Free Speech Zones" away from public view at functions like the Democratic and Republican National Conventions; Storm Trooper Thugs beating protesters at functions like the G20 and other "Globalist" gatherings.

Then we have a new doctrine of "Preemptive Wars" and bombing and invading other countries without a declaration of war by congress, and in the case if Obama and Pakistan and Libya ... no congressional approval whatsoever ... the list goes on and on and on.

But it couldn't happen here, aye? Keep telling yourself that .... all the way to the FEMA Camp.

[davehalo]

Originally Posted by WalkTheLine

How would the utopia happon?

define communism...and don't quote wikipedia

"communism" as practiced by Russia (USSR) and the Chinese (easy examples) are actually more akin to plutocratic-military dictatorships:

only the ruling class benefits


how is this different from "pure capitalism" (which I put in quotes cuz we westerners have a regulated capitalist society)?

Capitalism is truly survival of the fittest and only the strong survive. Those that start out life in the upper class have the greatest advantage of staying in the upper class. while those down below have a chance of moving up...doesn't matter if this chance is 0.00001% or 99% (never happen)...it's still a chance right?

So capitalism is a ruling wealthy-corporatocracy....wait sounds a lot like my example of communism.

i will go crawl back to my hovel now and go on about my daily life

[mohawkx]

Originally Posted by WalkTheLine

Thats what i also think Can someone answer this for me? why is it seen as legit for mainstream Democrats to associate with and pandor to people that would support such views?

Why does the republican party associate itself with far right nationalistic fascism? These people want a totalitarian state based on a narrow definition of morality and patriotism.

[jmking]

Originally Posted by davehalo

define communism...and don't quote wikipedia

"communism" as practiced by Russia (USSR) and the Chinese (easy examples) are actually more akin to plutocratic-military dictatorships:

only the ruling class benefits


how is this different from "pure capitalism" (which I put in quotes cuz we westerners have a regulated capitalist society)?

Capitalism is truly survival of the fittest and only the strong survive. Those that start out life in the upper class have the greatest advantage of staying in the upper class. while those down below have a chance of moving up...doesn't matter if this chance is 0.00001% or 99% (never happen)...it's still a chance right?

So capitalism is a ruling wealthy-corporatocracy....wait sounds a lot like my example of communism.

i will go crawl back to my hovel now and go on about my daily life

There is one big difference. Private property, the ability to own and unload land.

[Turboblocke]

Capitalism is the exploitation of man by man, while Communism is the opposite.

[GregW]

Both are extremes. What I want is a capitalist economics with enough regulation to prevent collusion and monopolies distorting the markets. I also want a progressive taxation and social welfare system so the people that do not or cannot participate in the market do not have to starve in the dark. The result would be an economy with a strong middle class and a place for the strivers to strive while the rest of us watched and cheered.

This will be far more difficult than either Fascism or Communism because my desired system does not require any tyrants to enforce elite privilege. My system lets the elites look out for themselves while the rest of us watch out for each other.

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by WalkTheLine

How would the utopia happon?

Ask Greece?

Basically all you need is a bunch of wealthy neighboring countries to work their ass off and give you money so you can develop massive government bloat etc. etc.

You have any friends that don't work, sponge off their parents and play xbox and smoke pot all day? It's the exact same phenomenon, it just creeps in bit by bit....no drama required.

[BigJon3475]

Originally Posted by WalkTheLine

How would the utopia happen?

You need to look into Fabian Socialist/ism.

http://oll.libertyfund.org/?option=c...hp%3Ftitle=298

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by GregW

Both are extremes. What I want is a capitalist economics with enough regulation to prevent collusion and monopolies distorting the markets. I also want a progressive taxation and social welfare system so the people that do not or cannot participate in the market do not have to starve in the dark. The result would be an economy with a strong middle class and a place for the strivers to strive while the rest of us watched and cheered.

This will be far more difficult than either Fascism or Communism because my desired system does not require any tyrants to enforce elite privilege. My system lets the elites look out for themselves while the rest of us watch out for each other.

Save me a seat.