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Old 01-13-2012, 01:43 PM
 
29,981 posts, read 42,920,640 times
Reputation: 12828

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CBS reports the pattern we all pretty much figured out about the Obama administration's DOE loans (a.k.a. venture fascism).


Department of Energy Loses Billions of Taxpayer Dollars in Bad Loans to Green Energy Companies - YouTube

Another thumbs up to Sharyl Attkisson who has also been reporting on "Operation Fast & Furious" despite the White House pressuring her to stop.
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Old 01-13-2012, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Missouri
4,272 posts, read 3,786,482 times
Reputation: 1937
There will be firings over this; at least there should be... for incompetence, at least.
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Old 01-13-2012, 03:30 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,216 posts, read 8,115,191 times
Reputation: 2037
There a few issues here.

First of all, American solar companies are going against Chinese companies whose subsidies pales in comparison, so essentially we are getting out subsidized. However, it should note that our solar panels are of higher quality but obviously that can only go so far.

Next, subsidizing industries in order to compete with established industries is fools gold.

So what are some free market solutions that solve our energy security and environmental issues?
1.) We need to raise the gas tax. We simply don't have the funding to maintain our infrastructure and expand at the current gas tax. Also, it puts a price on pollution associated with gasoline. Citizens are more than welcome to buy F250s trucks and Chevy Tahoes but we aren't subsidizing the pollution anymore but passing it on to the consumer.

2.) Carbon Tax. Starting off with a small tax that progressively gets larger as time goes by allow companies the time needed to plan and make adjustments while allowing the free market to come up with solutions on to use our energy more wisely and efficiently. Again, pollution isn't being subsidized and is being passed along to consumers who can then choose how to react.
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Old 01-13-2012, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,868 posts, read 24,379,671 times
Reputation: 8672
We lose trillions in tax payer money by subsidizing failed oil wells. Exxon paid no taxes last year, yet turned record profits.

How much did we miss out on there?
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Old 01-13-2012, 03:37 PM
 
Location: South Dakota
2,608 posts, read 2,096,626 times
Reputation: 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
There a few issues here.

First of all, American solar companies are going against Chinese companies who subsidies pales in comparison, so essentially we are getting out subsidized. However, it should note that our solar panels are of higher quality but obviously that can only go so far.

Next, subsidizing industries in order to compete with established industries is fools gold.

So what are some free market solutions that solve our energy security and environmental issues?
1.) We need to raise the gas tax. We simply don't have the funding to maintain our infrastructure and expand at the current gas tax. Also, it puts a price on pollution associated with gasoline. Citizens are more than welcome to buy F250s trucks and Chevy Tahoes but we aren't subsidizing the pollution anymore but passing it on to the consumer.

2.) Carbon Tax. Starting off with a small tax that progressively gets larger as time goes by allow companies the time needed to plan and make adjustments while allowing the free market to come up with solutions on to use our energy more wisely and efficiently. Again, pollution isn't being subsidized and is being passed along to consumers who can then choose how to react.
No that's how the Euro's do it and they suck....

Liberal solution to everything is raise taxes and let the big government run it

The answer is no subsidies and a free market...
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Old 01-13-2012, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
7,085 posts, read 12,051,528 times
Reputation: 4125
Let's see, ARPNET (internet precursor) was started in the 1960's, and it was really commercially taking off in the mid 1990's. So after 30 years of work and investment we have a technology that was not only "worth it", it has changed human lives all over the world. Now you are complaining about the start of investment in green technology because it hasn't producing anything right this minute?

How about this, take your computer back to the store and cut off your internet if you want to protest the government investing in new technology.
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Old 01-13-2012, 03:44 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,216 posts, read 8,115,191 times
Reputation: 2037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earlyretired View Post
No that's how the Euro's do it and they suck....

Liberal solution to everything is raise taxes and let the big government run it

The answer is no subsidies and a free market...
You say the answer is no subsidies, yet you want to subsidized pollution?

Perhaps you should actually read it into what's going on in Europe on the different countries use of carbon taxes instead of just making a blatantly ignorant statement that "the Euro's do it and they suck..." It really makes you look ignorant...

But I guess you enjoy having a crumbling infrastructure in face of a continually growing population. Or maybe you would rather just borrow more money, I'm not sure.

There is no free lunch and every policy has it's pros and cons. Oh and I'm not a liberal, I'm just open to all sorts of solutions and I don't constrain myself to conservative or liberal policies.
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Old 01-13-2012, 03:47 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,216 posts, read 8,115,191 times
Reputation: 2037
Quote:
Originally Posted by subsound View Post
Let's see, ARPNET (internet precursor) was started in the 1960's, and it was really commercially taking off in the mid 1990's. So after 30 years of work and investment we have a technology that was not only "worth it", it has changed human lives all over the world. Now you are complaining about the start of investment in green technology because it hasn't producing anything right this minute?

How about this, take your computer back to the store and cut off your internet if you want to protest the government investing in new technology.
No doubt subsidies can work in some situations, NASA has produced technological feats that have paid for themselves many times over. But like I said earlier, we are essentially being grossly out subsidized by China when it comes to clean energy.
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Old 01-13-2012, 03:58 PM
 
Location: South Dakota
2,608 posts, read 2,096,626 times
Reputation: 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
You say the answer is no subsidies, yet you want to subsidized pollution?

Perhaps you should actually read it into what's going on in Europe on the different countries use of carbon taxes instead of just making a blatantly ignorant statement that "the Euro's do it and they suck..." It really makes you look ignorant...

But I guess you enjoy having a crumbling infrastructure in face of a continually growing population. Or maybe you would rather just borrow more money, I'm not sure.

There is no free lunch and every policy has it's pros and cons. Oh and I'm not a liberal, I'm just open to all sorts of solutions and I don't constrain myself to conservative or liberal policies.
The topic of this post pretty much explains how government has failed at managing the energy we need, your solution is we need more beloved big government interference...

I disagree
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Old 01-13-2012, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,450,777 times
Reputation: 27720
China already has the market cornered. They used their stimulus money for it while we used ours for airport tarmacs and toad tunnels.
Even First Solar, once the bellweather of solar, is in trouble because of Chinese competition.
We lost the "green energy" race because we stayed too long at the gate.
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