Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Liberals think healthcare is a "right" which should be "free" or provided by the government. When it comes time to pay, however, they defer. I believe we are advanced enough as a nation that we can provide a system that benefits everyone. But everyone will have to pay. Some will pay more, the poorest might pay very little. But everyone has to pay. Simple math.
So why are Cons against a system that mandates insurance for all? I mean that's the single biggest argument against Obamacare, that it madates everyone have some kind of coverage???
So now it's monster drinks fault? Did the drink folks force her onto the slope? I'm sure if she felt it was unsafe she wouldn't have gone. Also these loons doing loops and flips all over and don't have insurance to cover themselves shouldn't be blaming anybody but themselves and nobody else should be either.
Maybe the state should be to blame too for allowing the event to happen, blame the maker of the snowboard, the guy who built the slope up for her to flip off of, hell blame everybody but the person who CHOSE to do the flip floppin at her own risk. That about sums up the attitude of most Americans nowdays.
Yeah, yeah she was irresponsible and engaged in a high risk sport unlike some retarded places in the world that still think texting while driving is o.k. or allows the riding of passengers in the back of a pick-up truck, no helmets mandatred even after a 2 year study costing millions determines that those motorcyclists who don't wear helmets have a proportionatly higher death rate from head injuries. Duuuh!
Quote:"Quote:"Baloney; the doctors don't benefit from running tests they KNOW BEFOREHAND aren't necessary?"
Only if they are 1). unethical 2). Don't mind committing fraud
You need to work on reading comprehension:
[SIZE=3]They don't benefit from it financially (unless they are in a group that buys the test equipment)...[/SIZE]
To benefit from tests run legitimately and necessarily, this is usually how it is done:
Say there is doctor A, in his own general practice by himself (but with a specialty). He sees lots of patients, some for routine things, many when they come in when they feel something is wrong with themselves. Since he is a GP, he will often need a specialist to look at a particular ailment. Typically a cardiologist, neurologist, gastroenterologist, nephrologist, a couple of types of surgeons, etc. So he needs to do referrals. So he gets together with docs B,C,D,E etc. to form a group.
Then, for a specific malady, he refers the patient to the appropriate doctor in the group. This continues on for some time, so the docs make good income. The next step is to pool some resources, and lease a building and some of our own equipment, like ultrasound machines, EKG's etc, often expanding to a few more docs. (I had an endoscopy and colonoscopy done at a physician's facility.) Obviously major surgery requires a much bigger facility.
So when I am sent in for an ultrasound, or EKG, or a whole list of tests, (they don't do the bloodwork, as that is easier to farm out to the labs).
all the income from the tests goes to the group, reimbursed by my insurance with my copay. (I am in a little bit of a different situation, since the SO know virtually all the docs in the entire large area, and potentially over-rides my GP's referral to another doc that may be outside the group).
All they are doing is competing with hospitals.
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
Thank you for verifiying everything I stated in your second parfa. I was able to read and comprehend your complete authentication of my position.
So why are Cons against a system that mandates insurance for all? I mean that's the single biggest argument against Obamacare, that it madates everyone have some kind of coverage???
H
Because fundamentally we value liberty above all else - even when it's not in our best interests.
But equally important is cost. Many realize that we will mandate insurance (coverage) but won't mandate a fair premium system. Insurance is cost sharing and risk sharing. When one group pays for the other against their will - that's a different story completely. If I told you that you had to buy car insurance so that your neighbor could afford to drive, you wouldn't be too happy. Imagine if you didn't even own a car how furious you would be.
The democrats blew it. They structured it wrong and lost the chance to do something big.
As you previously stated:
Quote:"Rebuttal: Baloney; the doctors don't benefit from running tests they KNOW BEFOREHAND aren't necessary?They bill the insurance company or YOU for those tests. Or they get a kickback from the testing agency for sending them fillers...."
Then you are stating that doctors are 1).either unethical or committing fraud, or 2). are getting kickbacks from the testing organizations.
The former is a rather strong statement, when you have not supplied any documented proof, and for the latter, they are committing #1, as you state 'running tests they know are not necessary'.
Thus, you are stating that doctors are either unethical or fraudulent.
Paint them with a wide paintbrush. Since you feel that they are so evil, I recommend you never use one.
Because fundamentally we value liberty above all else - even when it's not in our best interests.
But equally important is cost. Many realize that we will mandate insurance (coverage) but won't mandate a fair premium system. Insurance is cost sharing and risk sharing. When one group pays for the other against their will - that's a different story completely. If I told you that you had to buy car insurance so that your neighbor could afford to drive, you wouldn't be too happy. Imagine if you didn't even own a car how furious you would be.
The democrats blew it. They structured it wrong and lost the chance to do something big.
Yep. The bolded part says it all. The rest is whitewash. I owned a car for years and never had an accident. I've been employed for decades and have never been sick. I've done my share of paying for thousands of people to have accidents and/or be sick. If you want to drive you must have insurance. If you want to live (in America) you must have insurance to do that too. Why? Because American doctors make $200/hr. and American hospitals cost $2,000/cy. maybe, possibly there could be some salary caps and cost caps or perhaps even rollbacks... I mean... salaries in other sectors of society are being rolled back why not doctors salaries? American's need to get over there preoccupation with "freedom". You are not "free" in America. Obamacare is the worst place to draw the line in the sand. Senseless wars.... ya think?
As you previously stated:
Quote:"Rebuttal: Baloney; the doctors don't benefit from running tests they KNOW BEFOREHAND aren't necessary?They bill the insurance company or YOU for those tests. Or they get a kickback from the testing agency for sending them fillers...."
Then you are stating that doctors are 1).either unethical or committing fraud, or 2). are getting kickbacks from the testing organizations.
The former is a rather strong statement, when you have not supplied any documented proof, and for the latter, they are committing #1, as you state 'running tests they know are not necessary'.
Thus, you are stating that doctors are either unethical or fraudulent.
Paint them with a wide paintbrush. Since you feel that they are so evil, I recommend you never use one.
That's exactly what I'm suggesting; your reading and comprehension skills are finally kicking in as well.
Ethical and moral behaviour is something YOUR system currently discourages. You are correct; I would never by choice use one of your doctors or facilities if a choice is accorded my circumstances and it would not be just due to costs likely to be incurred.
On the other hand; I have no fear of either unethical or unwarranted procedures being performed for profit while engaging in OUR domestic system or indeed, also some of the other countries that use a universal system. Clear enough?
Yep. The bolded part says it all. The rest is whitewash. I owned a car for years and never had an accident. I've been employed for decades and have never been sick. I've done my share of paying for thousands of people to have accidents and/or be sick. If you want to drive you must have insurance. If you want to live (in America) you must have insurance to do that too. Why? Because American doctors make $200/hr. and American hospitals cost $2,000/cy. maybe, possibly there could be some salary caps and cost caps or perhaps even rollbacks... I mean... salaries in other sectors of society are being rolled back why not doctors salaries? American's need to get over there preoccupation with "freedom". You are not "free" in America. Obamacare is the worst place to draw the line in the sand. Senseless wars.... ya think?
H
As opposed to union plumbers who charge $125 an hour. One hour minimum.
And your figures are way wrong. $200 an hour is $416,00 per year. The average doc makes half that. Your union plumber makes $40 per hour plus $15 an hour in benefits. I just pulled that data from the latest pay sale. Overtime is at 1.5 time. While some specialists earn $400k, so do many public-sector administrators.
A new doc works 80 hours a week. Most established practicians report working 50+ hours per week to earn an average of $187,000, or $3596 per week.
A union pipefitter/plumber who works 50 hours a week earns $2200 a week. And has a nice pension waiting for him at age 55. He never had to endure med school, learned on the job, and if he screws up a pipe fitting people rarely die. Furthermore, the docs income is taxed at a higher marginal rate. A union dock loader in Oakland or Long Beach earns well over $100k before benefits.
Salaries in some sectors have actually risen because there is a shortage of skilled workers.
The US spends more per-person public dollars on healthcare than Canada.
Probably because it costs more here.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Since you feel that they are so evil, I recommend you never use one.
