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Exactly. America was self sufficient, pround and opportunities were abound in 1950. There was more honor and respect and folks could trust one another for the most part. life was simplier because it was laid out for you. But there was much discrimination and little tolerance. If you didnt fit the status quo life wasnt so grand.
This is the point I have been trying to articulate to the OP. Actually, I can say it. Articulating is not the problem. Getting people to listen is another matter. I've pretty figured out the true intentions.
It was brutal for Black people. You don't get it. In the South, there were so many laws keeping Blacks from voting.
Was there even democracy in any Black country during the 1950s?
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Originally Posted by green_mariner
Blacks were forced BY LAW to attend segregated schools, often having to travel longer distances than White children.
In Black countries they probably didn't even have schools to go to.
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Originally Posted by green_mariner
Blacks didn't have it that good in the 1950's.
They certainly weren't fleeing to greener grass in Africa.
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Originally Posted by green_mariner
Anyone in power can say things were great because it was great FOR THEM. For someone who wasn't in power, or who got the short end of the stick, it would certainly be horrible.
For both women and black people they were afforded more rights and had a higher standard of living than anywhere else in the world.
Was there even democracy in any Black country during the 1950s?
In Black countries they probably didn't even have schools to go to.
They certainly weren't fleeing to greener grass in Africa.
For both women and black people they were afforded more rights and had a higher standard of living than anywhere else in the world.
You are missing my point. Quit bringing up USA in 1950 vs Africa in 1950. Blacks didn't have democracy anywhere, not Africa or the USA. There was no democracy in the Deep South for Black people. Blacks couldn't even vote. There were no equal rights for Black people anywhere in the USA in 1950. TODAY, there are equal rights for Black people in the USA as well as democracy. I'm talking about comparing America in 1950 vs America today. As a Black man living in TODAY's America, what incentive would I have to live in the America of 1950? I am talking about the same place, different time, not different places at the same time. You are merely deflecting the argument.
When I turned 18, I went to the local library, picked up a voting registration form, and filled it out in 5 minutes. No poll tax. No charge period. I got my registration card in the mail soon after and voting in a local election a month later. In 1950, I would not have been allowed in the local library as it would have been "Whites Only". I would have had to pay a poll tax. I would have had to pass a literary test, and any random questions could have been asked, even questions that had nothing to do with voting could have been asked. It could have, and sometimes was, asked in a foreign languages. White people who wanted to vote were exempt from all of that.
Last year, I went to see Water For Elephants in a theater. I was there with my friends, who were Turkish, Arab, Brazilian, and Czech. We could sit anywhere we wanted and my Czech friend was not harassed for hangout out with "nonwhite" people. I wasn't harassed openly for being Black. We went in through the front door. In 1950, we would have had to go through the back door, my Brazilian friend and me would not have been allowed to sit with our Czech friend in the theater together. We would have been relegated to the back seats.
I frequently ride the bus. I can sit wherever I want. In 1950, Blacks had to sit in the back of the bus and were required to give up their seat for a White person if there was not enough room.
I go to the college of my choice. I can apply to any college I want and my grades are the determining factor. In 1950, I could be turned down based on my race.
I think about the people I have hung out with. I have some friends from a few years ago. All of them were White females. Some from the South. Some from other parts of the world. They made me feel very welcomed and I while they were in college, I hung out with them. There were no racial hangups(however, I have run into other people who think in bigoted ways). The last time I saw them was a few months ago(they live in different places now). We could all be friends and their parents were okay with this. I remember one night I was watching television with one of them, and we were sitting on the same bed together. In 1950, I would not have been allowed to be friends wit these women. I would not have even been allowed in the same bedroom with them. I live in Kennesaw. Down the road is Marietta,GA, where the Big Chicken is. The Big Chicken is located in the exact spot a Jewish man(Leo Frank) was lynched after being accused of rape. In 1950, just me fraternizing with a White woman on a friendship basis would have gotten me(and the woman) in deep trouble.
A few years ago I was in a bad mood and went into a sports bar to relax. The waitress(who was White) kissed me. In 1950, I would have been refused entry into the sports bar. That woman(and myself) would have been in big trouble.
My father is an engineer with a masters degree. He owns his home. He raised his children right and his eldest son will have his college degree this year. He has a job. He has a nice car. His house isn't worth what it should be. However, the housing values for African-Americans have been lower historically. He has opportunities that would have been harder to have for a Black man in 1950. In 1950, he would have been restricted to certain neighborhoods.
I went to a karate seminar a few years ago. All of us(Black, White, Asian, and Native American) stayed in a nice hotel and none of us were turned away. In 1950, me and a few other members would have been turned away for not being White.
America in 1950 vs America in 2012. What incentive do I have, as a Black man in the USA, to want to live in America in 1950 vs America in 2012? Please answer that for me. I am talking about America, not Africa.
Last edited by green_mariner; 03-01-2012 at 07:11 PM..
I seriously doubt about the former, and the 2nd depends on where said minorities were---obviously the south was the worst as far as judicial justice and political participation, while the north was more frustrating in terms of unions.
Nah, she's right, without qualifications. Women and minorities were second-class citizens.
I seriously doubt about the former, and the 2nd depends on where said minorities were---obviously the south was the worst as far as judicial justice and political participation, while the north was more frustrating in terms of unions.
It's true, the US escaped relatively unscathed from the war compared to whole swaths of Asia and Europe which were reduced to bombed out wastelands from years of constant warfare. We were damn fortunate not to have focus our post war efforts on having to rebuild the country from the ground up again.
My mom and dad both worked in a textile factory in my home town. My mom worked swing shift, my dad worked graveyard. I used to ride my bike down to the neighborhood deli, buy an Italian hoagie, and hand it to her through the mill window at her "lunch"time (which was dinner time for everybody else). My dad got up about five p.m. and made dinner for my sister and me. He was a terrible cook. That was the main reason we were so happy when my mom was later swtiched to the day shift at the factory.
Saturday was our big day. It was the only time we could be together all day (my dad had to be at work Sunday night at 11:00) -- starting with walking to the grocery store together, having lunch, playing ball or board games in the afternoon, and having a big meal together, and maybe watching television (big thrill!)
My mom would always have a big roast of something (beef, pork, chicken, whatever) on Satuday or Sunday. Then she could use the leftovers (along with vegetables and lots of bread) for hot sandwiches on Monday, stew on Tuesday, some kind of pasta dish on Wednesday, hash on Thursday, and soup on Friday. Then she'd start all over again on the next weekend. Toward the end of themonth, when things got a little tight, we might have pancakes and sugar for dinner, or ground beef mixed with flour and water over bread (when I was drafted in the 1960s, learned to call that S and S!) Women like my mom planned their meals in that way, and stretched our dollars out so that we could be fed and still have all the other things we needed. Not wanted. Needed.
The point is that we got by. Both parents worked hard: my mom at two jobs (including homemaking, including a using a wringer washer and hanging out clothes year-round, including winter, when she had to crack our frozen shirts when she brought them in frozen off the line!), and my dad at that killer graveyard shift, while doing all his own carpentry, home repairs, electrical and plumbing work, shoveling coal (and snow) in the winter. There was nothing special about all this. People -- men and women and kids -- worked hard in the 1950s. My sister learned from my mom, and cooked and cleaned and took care of my dad and me when my mom was at work. I learned from my dad, and pushed a lawnmower, shoveled the ashes out of the coal furnace, washed cars, shoveled snow, helped him fix stuff, collected soda bottles for the deposits, and picked blueberries and tomatoes on the farms near our home in the summertime for spending money. None of us ever had a weight problem!
I read a lot of comments in this thread about racial hatred, lynching, and all that jazz. All I know is that my dad would have pitched me out on my butt if I'd ever used the "N" word -- and not because he was philosophically offended by it (hell, he never even finished high school!). No, it was because a lot of our friends and neighbors, not to mention the folks my parents worked with, were black. We ate with them, worked with them, went to school with them, spend the night at each others' homes, and my dad drank beer with everybody.
It all came down to living with other people on a face-to-face basis, where most of us shared the same kind of hardships and good times. There was a lot of that in working-class America in the 1950s. There is a lot less of it today. We've got lots of stuff now, and we can talk a good game about equality and liberation -- but I wouldn't want to have missed a day of my life in blue-collar America on the 1950s.
We worked hard, we loved each other, and we spent way less time tryng to figure out what life was all about. We were too busy living it.
Was there even democracy in any Black country during the 1950s?
In Black countries they probably didn't even have schools to go to.
They certainly weren't fleeing to greener grass in Africa.
For both women and black people they were afforded more rights and had a higher standard of living than anywhere else in the world.
So being afforded the opportunity to be second rate in everything from schooling to legal rights somehow exemplifies the 50s? Yeah no thanks, the 50s can stay where it belongs, in the past.
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Women are harder to please these days, we can be happy for that progress.
