Separation of Church and State? (Congress, government, states, England)

[PianoPlayer17]

I have researched SCS and it is not, from what I have found, in the constitution. If it is show me a link or quote it, and I will admit that I'm wrong.

So, why do people say "Because of the separation of Church and State (insert example) is unconstitutional."?

[Skinny Puppy]

Originally Posted by PianoPlayer17

I have researched SCS and it is not, from what I have found, in the constitution. If it is show me a link or quote it, and I will admit that I'm wrong.

So, why do people say "Because of the separation of Church and State (insert example) is unconstitutional."?

People deduce that prohibiting the government from establishing any religion is essentially the separation of Church and state. I concur.

[Dane_in_LA]

If the term was good enough for Jefferson when referring to the 1st, it's good enough for me.

[Harrier]

Originally Posted by Skinny Puppy

People deduce that prohibiting the government from establishing any religion is essentially the separation of Church and state. I concur.

Those same people tend to ignore the part of the 1st amendment about prohibiting the free exercise of religion.

[Skinny Puppy]

Originally Posted by Harrier

Those same people tend to ignore the part of the 1st amendment about prohibiting the free exercise of religion.

?

[tluv00]

The actual terms are not used in the Constitution. They are inferred from:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ...." and Article VI specifies that "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

Plus Jefferson used it in a letter to Danbury Baptists:

"Separation of church and state" (sometimes "wall of separation between church and state") is a phrase used by Thomas Jefferson (in his 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptists) and others expressing an understanding of the intent and function of the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. The phrase has since been repeatedly cited by the Supreme Court of the United States.

It's easier to say than the above.

[Memphis1979]

Originally Posted by PianoPlayer17

I have researched SCS and it is not, from what I have found, in the constitution. If it is show me a link or quote it, and I will admit that I'm wrong.

So, why do people say "Because of the separation of Church and State (insert example) is unconstitutional."?

The United States is forbidden by the constitution in passing a law that respects any establishment of religion. That is the law.

Now, some of the founders felt that established a clear and separate wall between church and state. See Madison and Jeffersons writings on this. It was supposed to be written as a "wall of separation", but was later toned down because some founders thought that that wording could be used to outlaw religious practice.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

This is the exact line in the first amendment. A law respecting an establishment would be to mandate Christian worship for citizens, for instance.

It was put into place to protect the church from the state, and the state from the church, as happened in England.

[janelle144]

Originally Posted by Harrier

Those same people tend to ignore the part of the 1st amendment about prohibiting the free exercise of religion.

I think you have the backward---read it again. Allowing is the word that is used.

The whole sentence is---

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

[gallowsCalibrator]

Originally Posted by PianoPlayer17

I have researched SCS and it is not, from what I have found, in the constitution. If it is show me a link or quote it, and I will admit that I'm wrong.

It's not explicitly stated, but the Supreme Court has interpreted the constitution to mean that there should be a separation of Church and State.

Which is a good thing, because there are thousands of religions and not one more "valid" than the next.

Originally Posted by Harrier

Those same people tend to ignore the part of the 1st amendment about prohibiting the free exercise of religion.

When has the government prohibited one's free exercise of religion on one's own time?

[EinsteinsGhost]

Originally Posted by PianoPlayer17

I have researched SCS and it is not, from what I have found, in the constitution. If it is show me a link or quote it, and I will admit that I'm wrong.

So, why do people say "Because of the separation of Church and State (insert example) is unconstitutional."?

Because the US Constitution is a framework, not a "complete with every necessary details" document. Just because you couldn't find "separation of church and state" as a phrase within the document does not mean it isn't there. And of course, the key in question here would be a part of First Amendment. James Madison elaborates on it here:

"The civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability, and performs its functions with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people, have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the State"

And here...
"Strongly guarded as is the separation between religion and Gov't in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history"

And here...
"Every new and successful example, therefore, of a perfect separation between the ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance; and I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity the less they are mixed together"