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Old 04-05-2012, 04:43 AM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,229 posts, read 17,861,032 times
Reputation: 4585

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The Bush Admin couldn't destroy all of the copies of the memo. Now the release of the document Bush/Cheney feared so much. Obama, will not pursue, but at least the Repubs can't lie about it any more, at least convincingly lie about it. I suppose Bush and Cheney won't be doing any International travel anytime soon, not that they dared risk it before.

The Zelikow Memo: Internal Critique of Bush Torture Memos Declassified
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Old 04-05-2012, 04:55 AM
 
45,232 posts, read 26,457,645 times
Reputation: 24993
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
The Bush Admin couldn't destroy all of the copies of the memo. Now the release of the document Bush/Cheney feared so much. Obama, will not pursue, but at least the Repubs can't lie about it any more, at least convincingly lie about it. I suppose Bush and Cheney won't be doing any International travel anytime soon, not that they dared risk it before.

The Zelikow Memo: Internal Critique of Bush Torture Memos Declassified
Partisan hackery at its finest.
Obama wont pursue, because he is guilty of same or worse lol.
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Old 04-05-2012, 05:03 AM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,229 posts, read 17,861,032 times
Reputation: 4585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Partisan hackery at its finest.
Obama wont pursue, because he is guilty of same or worse lol.
Yep, those partisan hacks that keep bringing up facts. How unfair of them!
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Old 04-05-2012, 05:05 AM
 
45,232 posts, read 26,457,645 times
Reputation: 24993
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
Yep, those partisan hacks that keep bringing up facts. How unfair of them!
Its not the facts I object to. It's that the judgement of same facts seems to differ depending if one has a D or an R after their name.
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Old 04-05-2012, 05:11 AM
 
46,310 posts, read 27,117,053 times
Reputation: 11133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Its not the facts I object to. It's that the judgement of same facts seems to differ depending if one has a D or an R after their name.
Now don't confuse bob, with "D" and "R", he as others on this board don't care what happens if there is a "D" in front of their name....
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Old 04-05-2012, 05:36 AM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,229 posts, read 17,861,032 times
Reputation: 4585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Its not the facts I object to. It's that the judgement of same facts seems to differ depending if one has a D or an R after their name.
Don't worry, facts won't really hurt you.
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Old 04-05-2012, 05:40 AM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,330 posts, read 54,411,082 times
Reputation: 40736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Partisan hackery at its finest.
Obama wont pursue, because he is guilty of same or worse lol.
And your evidence is?
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Old 04-05-2012, 05:53 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,076 posts, read 20,535,499 times
Reputation: 7807
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
The Bush Admin couldn't destroy all of the copies of the memo. Now the release of the document Bush/Cheney feared so much. Obama, will not pursue, but at least the Repubs can't lie about it any more, at least convincingly lie about it. I suppose Bush and Cheney won't be doing any International travel anytime soon, not that they dared risk it before.

The Zelikow Memo: Internal Critique of Bush Torture Memos Declassified


If you think this is the first time an administration has been caught trying to destroy evidence or hiding something behind a security classification, you're sadly deficient in the study of history. Whether it's right or wrong, it's a fairly common practice.

I'm among those who have always opposed the imposition of enchanted interrogation techniques because it violates our principles, but if this is an indictment of the Bush administration, one should be fair and indict every preceding administration too on the same grounds. The issue here isn't the interrogations themselves, or the legal opinions which buttressed or opposed their legal case, but the deliberate hiding of other opinions. While the subject matter may be different in other cases, the hiding isn't and if Bush is guilty, so are previous Presidents.

And, I must say this: Though I'm convinced the Bush administration did more damage to this country and our Constitution than all other administrations in the past 150 years combined, I recognize that even his administration must the able to conduct robust, internal arguments over policy without public scrutiny of every detail of that discussion. ANY administration, in any field of endeavor, MUST have the freedom to exchange opinions and ideas internally without having to consider how opponents would react to any idea or opinion floated during such discussions. Complete transparency would have the effect of chilling an honest debate and preventing the free exchange of ideas.
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Old 04-05-2012, 05:59 AM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,229 posts, read 17,861,032 times
Reputation: 4585
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
If you think this is the first time an administration has been caught trying to destroy evidence or hiding something behind a security classification, you're sadly deficient in the study of history. Whether it's right or wrong, it's a fairly common practice.

I'm among those who have always opposed the imposition of enchanted interrogation techniques because it violates our principles, but if this is an indictment of the Bush administration, one should be fair and indict every preceding administration too on the same grounds. The issue here isn't the interrogations themselves, or the legal opinions which buttressed or opposed their legal case, but the deliberate hiding of other opinions. While the subject matter may be different in other cases, the hiding isn't and if Bush is guilty, so are previous Presidents.

And, I must say this: Though I'm convinced the Bush administration did more damage to this country and our Constitution than all other administrations in the past 150 years combined, I recognize that even his administration must the able to conduct robust, internal arguments over policy without public scrutiny of every detail of that discussion. ANY administration, in any field of endeavor, MUST have the freedom to exchange opinions and ideas internally without having to consider how opponents would react to any idea or opinion floated during such discussions. Complete transparency would have the effect of chilling an honest debate and preventing the free exchange of ideas.
Well, torture is and was, against the Law. International and US Law. Rationalizing breaking the Law does nothing to aid us in anything. It makes us no better than who and what, we pretend to detest.
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Old 04-05-2012, 06:43 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,076 posts, read 20,535,499 times
Reputation: 7807
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
Well, torture is and was, against the Law. International and US Law. Rationalizing breaking the Law does nothing to aid us in anything. It makes us no better than who and what, we pretend to detest.
I agree and I think the conclusion arrived at by the best legal minds of the Bush administration was wrong.

However, that does not mean I think internal discussions of policy should be open to review while that discussion is on-going. There must be a degree of secrecy to ensure the free exchange of opinions.
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