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Because we're the United States of America. Americans don't abandon that concept when the going gets tough.
Many of us never embraced that concept to begin with.
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Ask the South how secession worked for them. I don't think it's doomsday, I think it's traitorous.
WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP BRINGING UP THE CIVIL WAR?!
Why not ask the Philippines how succession went for them? They are now independent of the USA, no bloodshed needed. Or why not ask Slovakia how things went when they separated from the Czech republic? Not a single drop of blood spilled and they're happier for it.
Yes, there are plenty of budding revolutionaries on this site, but none of them have yet developed the cajones to actually try it.
Internet warriors. CD Rambo's. Blowhards Inc.
I wish they'd either get on with it or shut up.
Who said anything about "revolution"? Again, most secessionists (Vermont, Hawaii, Cascadia, Texas) are non-violent. I don't see anyone asking pro-life people why they don't get off line and blow up abortion clinics or ask environmentalists why they don't burn a power plant down.
And yes, I have met up with some folks from the Cascadian independence movement, so I am active outside of the internet.
It's not, of course. But the Pledge of Allegiance is something that is instilled in all of us. We became a world power only after we settled the matter in the Civil War. Being indivisible was the reason we rose to the top.
While, from everything I've read, the Constitution neither prohibits nor allows secession, sections in Article IV prohibit individuals, cities, or counties seceding from the state in which they are located.
There is also an undetermined matter as to how a state would be allowed or prevented from seceding. Other Constitutional Articles imply, but top not state, that a secession could be prevented by Federal invasion.
From a practical viewpoint, the United States is far to interdependent to allow secession, even if a secession was peaceful and allowed to occur. A state that cut itself out of the nation would certainly face a crushing financial burden if it was not supported by the Federal government. Any state that was successful would certainly lose at least half of it's population, as there are as many citizens opposed to it as favor it. Those who didn't want it would pack up and leave while they still could.
This would put an even greater burden on those who remained. Think about the roads, power grid, water supplies, education, and industries within each state, and how they are all critical to 21st century life. They all require interdependency to stay up and running, and the costs are spread widely, regionally and nationally. States with the lowest populations count on the Federal money and regulations the most. All of them contribute less to the Federal government in the taxes they pay than they receive in benefits.
So far, secession movements in Alaska, Hawaii, Georgia, Montana, Texas and S. Carolina have all been denied by their State Supreme courts to petition. Some never got off the ground far enough to make it to the courts. Of these states, Alaska pays the least and gets the most from the Feds by far. Take away half the population in Texas, and it would be devastated, whether it seceded or not.
It's not, of course. But the Pledge of Allegiance is something that is instilled in all of us. We became a world power only after we settled the matter in the Civil War. Being indivisible was the reason we rose to the top.
For the TENTH TIME ON THIS THREAD, What about the Philippines? They were a part of this so called one Empire (opps, I meant "nation") indivisible, too, and yet they succeeded without any bloodshed.
For the dozenth and hopefully last time, this has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CIVIL WAR.
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While, from everything I've read, the Constitution neither prohibits nor allows secession, sections in Article IV prohibit individuals, cities, or counties seceding from the state in which they are located.
Constitutions can be amended, you know.
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There is also an undetermined matter as to how a state would be allowed or prevented from seceding. Other Constitutional Articles imply, but top not state, that a secession could be prevented by Federal invasion.
And anarchy could be prevented by fascism, so what? I am not talking just succession, I am talking about ending the empire all together. Instead of one Empire composed of people who can't stand each other spread out over a continent, we would have six or so smaller, more manageable nations of like minded people.
No more rednecks having veto power of Washington and Oregon, and no more of us telling Dixie how to run its affairs.
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From a practical viewpoint, the United States is far to interdependent to allow secession, even if a secession was peaceful and allowed to occur. A state that cut itself out of the nation would certainly face a crushing financial burden if it was not supported by the Federal government. Any state that was successful would certainly lose at least half of it's population, as there are as many citizens opposed to it as favor it. Those who didn't want it would pack up and leave while they still could.
"TOO INDEPENDENT TO ALLOW SECESSION?!" That;s like saying someone's too much of a prude to not go to a strip club!
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This would put an even greater burden on those who remained. Think about the roads, power grid, water supplies, education, and industries within each state, and how they are all critical to 21st century life. They all require interdependency to stay up and running, and the costs are spread widely, regionally and nationally. States with the lowest populations count on the Federal money and regulations the most. All of them contribute less to the Federal government in the taxes they pay than they receive in benefits.
Again, no one would remain. That's the pint/
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So far, secession movements in Alaska, Hawaii, Georgia, Montana, Texas and S. Carolina have all been denied by their State Supreme courts to petition. Some never got off the ground far enough to make it to the courts. Of these states, Alaska pays the least and gets the most from the Feds by far. Take away half the population in Texas, and it would be devastated, whether it seceded or not.
Keep in mind that when those states no longer see their money spent on overseas wars or wasted on corporate welfare, they'll find they have a lot more money to spare than they thought.
Who said anything about "revolution"? Again, most secessionists (Vermont, Hawaii, Cascadia, Texas) are non-violent. I don't see anyone asking pro-life people why they don't get off line and blow up abortion clinics or ask environmentalists why they don't burn a power plant down.
And yes, I have met up with some folks from the Cascadian independence movement, so I am active outside of the internet.
Secession IS revolution. When any territory decides to separate from it's government, that is Revolution.
All you have to do is look at Ireland. While a revolution does not need to be violent in principle, in reality any revolution always results in violence to some degree.
Our own history shows plenty of evidence that there would be people who would be put up against some wall and be shot.
The thing about revolutions is that they can be easy to start, but are always unpredictable afterwards. It is more likely for a revolution to slide into intense widespread violence than to remain peaceable. Revolutions most often end up with a nation or a part of it becoming a dictatorship as well.
Our revolution worked in large part because the continent was only 1/3 occupied at the time. This is no longer true, and we are no longer a small group of folks who have similar interests.
Keep in mind that when those states no longer see their money spent on overseas wars or wasted on corporate welfare, they'll find they have a lot more money to spare than they thought.
Ah, Utopia,
You sound primed and ready to go.
Your country can have California.
What type of government will your new country have?
Without wars and corporate welfare you should be financially sound and well on your way to becoming the best country on Earth.
Secession IS revolution. When any territory decides to separate from it's government, that is Revolution.
All you have to do is look at Ireland. While a revolution does not need to be violent in principle, in reality any revolution always results in violence to some degree.
Our own history shows plenty of evidence that there would be people who would be put up against some wall and be shot.
The thing about revolutions is that they can be easy to start, but are always unpredictable afterwards. It is more likely for a revolution to slide into intense widespread violence than to remain peaceable. Revolutions most often end up with a nation or a part of it becoming a dictatorship as well.
Our revolution worked in large part because the continent was only 1/3 occupied at the time. This is no longer true, and we are no longer a small group of folks who have similar interests.
So, was the Velvet Divorce in Czechoslovakia a "revolution"? That is what I am proposing: America break up into easy to manage nations that share a common culture, history, territory and common values...unlike it is now, with Redneckistan controlling huge pieces of the Senate and making it impossible for Cascadia and New England to progress.
Who said anything about "revolution"? Again, most secessionists (Vermont, Hawaii, Cascadia, Texas) are non-violent. I don't see anyone asking pro-life people why they don't get off line and blow up abortion clinics or ask environmentalists why they don't burn a power plant down.
And yes, I have met up with some folks from the Cascadian independence movement, so I am active outside of the internet.
So, quit talking about it and get on with it....please. Listening to all the blather about what you're "gonna do" is becoming wearisome.
So, quit talking about it and get on with it....please. Listening to all the blather about what you're "gonna do" is becoming wearisome.
Would you say the same to people who say "I'm gonna vote for Romney" or "I'm gonna vote for Obama" or "we're gonna ban abortion" or "we're gonna make gay marriage legal"?
We secessionists know it will take YEARS, maybe even generations before we achieve independence for our respective nations. We're working on it, but despite what some would say, we are not insane. It takes a long time to get something like this to happen, but we work on it and it will happen someday...and then we in the Pacific North West, from the peaks of Mount Baker to the forests of the Olympic Peninsula, from the artists-filled streets of Portland to the wine country of the Columbia Valley, can have something we've always deserved: a country of our own.
the military question of secessions was solved, but the constitutional part of secession was never answered.
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