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Old 06-10-2012, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,770 posts, read 11,566,757 times
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What an absurd waste of money. I suppose we borrowed money from China to build these monsters of the sea.

Quote:
Down the road, the ship is to be equipped with an electromagnetic railgun, which uses a magnetic field and electric current to fire a projectile at several times the speed of sound.
But cost overruns and technical delays have left many defense experts wondering if the whole endeavor was too focused on futuristic technologies for its own good.
But the destroyers' $3.1 billion price tag, which is about twice the cost of the current destroyers and balloons to $7 billion each when research and development is added in, nearly sank it in Congress. Though the Navy originally wanted 32 of them, that was cut to 24, then seven.
US Navy hopes stealth ship answers a rising China - Yahoo! News
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:25 AM
 
1,182 posts, read 1,139,996 times
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The Chinese are pretty dumb. They are paying for a ship being built to kick their asses! Maybe there is a reason they don't build airplanes, ships or even cars in China.
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,138 posts, read 22,818,947 times
Reputation: 14116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruin Rick View Post
The Chinese are pretty dumb. They are paying for a ship being built to kick their asses! Maybe there is a reason they don't build airplanes, ships or even cars in China.
Actually they build plenty of all three... they just don't sell them here.

America's ability to rule the waves secures our top spot in the world, just like it did for the UK back in the 19th century. The sea is still the best way to get products and raw materials from all over the globe, so if you control the means, you control the world.

Just imagine how rich you could get if everyone drove the roads of your town completely "by your leave"!

If America overspends anywhere, it should be on the Navy.
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Old 06-10-2012, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,104 posts, read 5,991,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
Actually they build plenty of all three... they just don't sell them here.

America's ability to rule the waves secures our top spot in the world, just like it did for the UK back in the 19th century. The sea is still the best way to get products and raw materials from all over the globe, so if you control the means, you control the world.

Just imagine how rich you could get if everyone drove the roads of your town completely "by your leave"!

If America overspends anywhere, it should be on the Navy.


Our Navy faces a problem that it may share this world with a technologically equal or superior opponent who may use space power, artificial intelliegence and stealth airpower (planes, missiles , and UAVs) to find and kill the US Navy. Imagine spacecraft to find and precisely locate a Nimitz carrier at a range of 2000 miles from Chinese shores. Then target it with a sophisticated missile with a AI targeting system trained to hit the ship for maximum effect and a sensor suit to allow it to track and home in on the target. A plausible attack might target the nuclear propulsion systems and make the ship so contaminated that the Navy may have no other choice than send the ship to Davy Jones! We've certainly educated enough Chinese enginees and scientists to make this a very realistic prospect.
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Old 06-10-2012, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,104 posts, read 5,991,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruin Rick View Post
The Chinese are pretty dumb. They are paying for a ship being built to kick their asses! Maybe there is a reason they don't build airplanes, ships or even cars in China.

You might want to revise and extend your remarks since the Chinese now build more cars and trucks than we do and have a larger market for such vehicles. They have flight tersted a competently designed 5th generation Stealth fighter called J-20. It is larger than the F-22 so it can carry more fuel or air to air missiles.Lastly tey build the largest container and oil or gas transports. The USA doesn't and might be unable to do so.
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Old 06-10-2012, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
11,155 posts, read 29,323,086 times
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Originally Posted by mwruckman View Post
You might want to revise and extend your remarks since the Chinese now build more cars and trucks than we do and have a larger market for such vehicles. They have flight tersted a competently designed 5th generation Stealth fighter called J-20. It is larger than the F-22 so it can carry more fuel or air to air missiles.Lastly tey build the largest container and oil or gas transports. The USA doesn't and might be unable to do so.
the J-20 is rummored to just be all hype one reason is China wanted to aquire export verions of the 4th genration fighter Su-30MKK with advanced radar systems.


Russia confirmed that the newest Irbis-E (Snow leopard-E) phased array radar in Russia's inventory, developed by Tikhomirov, was not going to be offered to China. However, it is highly unlikely that China will have a Built aDomestic version of the newest Russian airborne radar because all models of the Su-30 series can only provide half of the power required for the 5 kW rated radar, and currently, only Sukhoi Su-35 and Sukhoi Su-37 have enough power to support this newest Russian airborne radar.

For China To purchase the Irbis-E phased array radar would lock China into yet another deal with Russia to upgrade its Su-30MKK fleet that would greatly increase the cost, because China currently lacks the ability to do so by itself, or is forced to pay even higher prices to buy the Su-35 or Su-37.


The new J-20 strike fighter program (first unveiled during Defense Secretary Gates’ January 2011 visit to China), especially needs domestic engine development and production breakthroughs because Russia appears reluctant to sell the high-powered engines that could enable the J-20 to supercruise (sustain supersonic flight without using inefficient afterburners) and thereby match the performance of the world’s most modern fighters such as the Lockheed Martin F-22 and Sukhoi T-50/PAK FA. Such developments would help cement China as a formidable regional air power and deserve close attention from policymakers.

However, evidence still suggests that China’s main military jet engine maker—Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC)—is struggling to maintain consistent quality control as it scales up production of the WS-10 Taihang turbofan that China hopes to use to power more of its fighter fleet. This issue is causing problems with reliability and keeping China’s tactical aircraft heavily reliant on imported Russian engines. China’s July 2011 order of 123 additional AL-31 jet engines supports the view that domestically-made engines still are not good enough to rely on as the mainstay to power Chinese fighters.

The latest jet engine import numbers suggest Chinese engines may now power roughly 20% of the country’s most modern fighters and strike aircraft as well as the JF-17 fighters it is exporting to Pakistan. That means at least 80% of China’s tactical aircraft fleet runs on Russian-made engines and will likely continue to rely substantially on imported Russian engines to support its tactical aircraft programs over the next two years.

So no way does China have anything close to a 5th gen fighter only the U.S. and Russia have the proven technology and ability to produce 5th gen fighters.

Last edited by GTOlover; 06-10-2012 at 02:30 PM..
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Old 06-10-2012, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,770 posts, read 11,566,757 times
Reputation: 4262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
Actually they build plenty of all three... they just don't sell them here.

America's ability to rule the waves secures our top spot in the world, just like it did for the UK back in the 19th century. The sea is still the best way to get products and raw materials from all over the globe, so if you control the means, you control the world.

Just imagine how rich you could get if everyone drove the roads of your town completely "by your leave"!

If America overspends anywhere, it should be on the Navy.
Very good point, I hadn't looked at it that way.
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Old 06-10-2012, 03:25 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,210,872 times
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Nobody in the U.S. or China think that there will be war between the two countries. There is no way to defeat the other without destroying yourself.

The threats are all political in nature to allow $7 billion dollar albatrosses like this. This is an excellent example of where we can cut the military. First off if it was up to me there would be no cost over runs. If you put in a bid for X dollars you are on the hook for providing the item for X dollars.
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Old 06-10-2012, 03:31 PM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,867,563 times
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No they are actaully within budget. Its alot of other things including much domestic spending that is off budget.But then when you can't pass a budget in nearly four eyars what is a budget mnay wander.
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Old 06-10-2012, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
11,155 posts, read 29,323,086 times
Reputation: 5480
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
No they are actaully within budget. Its alot of other things including much domestic spending that is off budget.But then when you can't pass a budget in nearly four eyars what is a budget mnay wander.
LOL that is true though and why is lockheed Martin getting all the big contracts the F-22A was over budget, the F-35 JSF II is over budget and the whole projects could get dscrapped so why go with them to build super advanced stealth destroyers esp after the $1.5 trillion spent so far on the F-35 fiasco.

Lockheed most have some good lobbyist to keep getting these contracts
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