Do you think conservatives will ever stop trying to dismantle Social Security and Medicare? (millionaires, leader)

[BigJon3475]

I guess we're not dealing with rocket scientist in here.

Let me put it as clearly as possible for the not-too-bright.

You're going to have to create 4+ million people paying into SS out of thin air just so you can fall back into the "High Cost" scenario so that OASI can collapse in 2029, DI can collapse in 2015 and OASDI can collapse in 2027.

Keep acting like nothing is wrong and cheering on Democrats who have given you a worse than "High Cost" scenario and in fact put the program in even more dire straits so that you can buy a few more cheeseburgers every week.

[AONE]

On the left you have a belief we are our brothers keeper,on the right you have a to hell with you attitude... Why do the right want to portray they are so "Christian" when they are clearly not. I don't really care if you are the party of the haves but stop pretending you are something you aren't... It's like the Moral Majority... which fortunately were neither.

[steven_h]

Originally Posted by plates

Someone is just upset because they too are a hypocrite.

You never add anything. All of your posts are you whining. Parroting other bigots makes you even worse than those who first said them.



You can't rest a case when you have never made one.

Kid, when you're capable of having an original thought that doesn't revolve around your bigotry maybe then you can post.

A child pretending to be an adult again. I'm still waiting for a response to me calling you out on your other "kid" remark. Consider that everyone in here (except you apparently) knows I have adult children. This shows how much you actually read posts. You must glance above the fold and decide you have the gist of the entire post, huh?

You do not possess the ability to discern the difference between my unique views, and your imitation of parrots. Your definition of a unique view is to be so far out there, you make other moderate liberals wince.

That's called insanity, not a position.

[steven_h]

Originally Posted by BigJon3475

I guess we're not dealing with rocket scientist in here.

Let me put it as clearly as possible for the not-too-bright.

You're going to have to create 4+ million people paying into SS out of thin air just so you can fall back into the "High Cost" scenario so that OASI can collapse in 2029, DI can collapse in 2015 and OASDI can collapse in 2027.

Keep acting like nothing is wrong and cheering on Democrats who have given you a worse than "High Cost" scenario and in fact put the program in even more dire straits so that you can buy a few more cheeseburgers every week.

Logic falls on deaf eyes. You need to say everything is awesome and SS is on the right track, that everyone should get $50 an hour minimum wage, and 8 weeks paid vacations. You know, like public sector union workers. This will get you all the rep's you could imagine. Money is just something the government creates for us to spend, right?

Since reps are meaningless (if from idiots) in the scheme of life, and money has to be paid back with interest... let me say "cheers" and that you are so right, it hurts! The truth tends to do that.


Also: Kids today aren't being raised to start families. Without families, we will never have a balance of retirees and new entrees into the work force. SS will fail sooner than later. This is one of the primary reasons the wealthy want to trim the world population by 4-5B. They'll be able to start over with complete control of the populous... but this is for another thread.

[plates]

Originally Posted by steven_h

A child pretending to be an adult again. I'm still waiting for a response to me calling you out on your other "kid" remark. Consider that everyone in here (except you apparently) knows I have adult children. This shows how much you actually read posts. You must glance above the fold and decide you have the gist of the entire post, huh?

You do not possess the ability to discern the difference between my unique views, and your imitation of parrots. Your definition of a unique view is to be so far out there, you make other moderate liberals wince.

That's called insanity, not a position.

Good for you, but you keep complaining about things that have nothing to do with anything that has occurred. I also enjoy you bragging about having kids when you are one of the most immature posters here.

[Phil306]

Social Security was NEVER meant as a retirement plan. It was meant as supplement to your own personal retirement income. Be it a pension or your own savings. However, since its implementation, corporations have mostly done away with pension plans and people refuse to save. Why? I have social security. Therefore, while its original intent was noble, it has been morphed into a socialist wet dream, which, like it or not, in its current state will fail.

More people are drawing from it, then paid into it. More people are drawing from it, then the amount of money they did pay into it. As someone said, it IS a ponzi scheme. One generation being relied upon to pay for the other. However, that doesn't take into consideration generational issues, such as less children, not wanting to have children, economic downturns, etc.

Social security SHOULD be abolished and Medicare right along with it. If you work, make a law where it is MANDATORY where EVERYONE puts 10%, or whatever number can be agreed upon, into their OWN retirement accounts. That would be the bare bones minimum and if you want, and probably should, invest more of your own money, you are free to do so. After working 30+ years, you will have a sizeable nest egg in which to retire off of and no relying on the government or your neighbor to take care of you.

Of course, the government won't allow something such as this. They cannot take money out of their "projects." Be it wars, bridges to no where, or any other pork barrel projects they want. And its BOTH parties: Democrat AND Republican to blame for this. NO ONE is clean. No president, no senator, no congressman. They are all greedy, filthy politicians.

[Quick Enough]

Originally Posted by AONE

On the left you have a belief we are our brothers keeper,on the right you have a to hell with you attitude... Why do the right want to portray they are so "Christian" when they are clearly not. I don't really care if you are the party of the haves but stop pretending you are something you aren't... It's like the Moral Majority... which fortunately were neither.

"the right you have a to hell with you attitude..."

Couldn't be further from the truth.

Every proposal I have heard of wants to MODIFY the existing program so it WILL BE solvent for those in the future.

If you disagree, prove it.

By the way, where is the left's proposal to save SS?

Even G.W. Bush tried to get the dems to talk about it and they wouldn't come to the table.

Good ole' barney frank,again, said that SS wasn't in ANY trouble.

[plates]

Originally Posted by Quick Enough

"the right you have a to hell with you attitude..."

Couldn't be further from the truth.

Every proposal I have heard of wants to MODIFY the existing program so it WILL BE solvent for those in the future.

If you disagree, prove it.

By the way, where is the left's proposal to save SS?

Even G.W. Bush tried to get the dems to talk about it and they wouldn't come to the table.

Good ole' barney frank,again, said that SS wasn't in ANY trouble.

That's a good laugh.

[StillwaterTownie]

Originally Posted by Quick Enough

I would like to see Social Security phased out. Americans can do much better then what SS returns.

With savings rates near zero, I wouldn't be too sure about that.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie

With savings rates near zero, I wouldn't be too sure about that.

It doesn't matter what savings rates are.

It's all talk and no action. If it was so freaking easy to have huge whopping retirement savings accounts, then everyone should have one, but the strange thing is that so few have them.

And it's absurd to think that everyone is potentially a Wall Street Wizardâ„¢. Investing is extremely hard work, lots of reading and studying, crunching numbers, paying attention to damn near everything that is even remotely related to your investment accounts and a whole lot more.

Why do you think I don't invest or give investment advice? Because I don't know what I'm doing, and even if I did, it's way too much work. I know people who invest and sure, they make a lot of money, but then they spend 10-30 hours a week studying and reading and asking questions.

It's much harder now than it ever was.

You didn't read the Federal Register? Then you missed the regulations that will negatively affect the industries in which you hold stocks, and the time to sell was 3 days ago....ooops.

Not Wall Street material...

Mircea

Originally Posted by Quick Enough

"the right you have a to hell with you attitude..."

Couldn't be further from the truth.

Every proposal I have heard of wants to MODIFY the existing program so it WILL BE solvent for those in the future.

If you disagree, prove it.

By the way, where is the left's proposal to save SS?

Even G.W. Bush tried to get the dems to talk about it and they wouldn't come to the table.

Good ole' barney frank,again, said that SS wasn't in ANY trouble.

Well, Bawney doesn't know his mouth from his ass so you what did you expect?

Like it or not, saving Social Security for the far future is going to require some level of privatization.

It would be in everyone's best interest to start examining options now, while you all still have the chance.

Proposing...

Mircea

Originally Posted by Phil306

Social Security was NEVER meant as a retirement plan. It was meant as supplement to your own personal retirement income. Be it a pension or your own savings.

It's actually an insurance plan for end-of-life subsistence.

Originally Posted by Phil306

However, since its implementation, corporations have mostly done away with pension plans and people refuse to save. Why?

Why?

Because pensions plans were Ponzi-Schemes and destined to fail, in the exact same way Social Security is a Ponzi-Scheme and ultimately destined to fail. Pension plans work, only if a company keeps expanding and in the real world, that isn't always possible.

As for people saving, it's just not in their nature. You have a consumption driven economy that caters to individuals and households and their spending is required to sustain your economy.

Originally Posted by Phil306

I have social security. Therefore, while its original intent was noble, it has been morphed into a socialist wet dream, which, like it or not, in its current state will fail.

I don't see any evidence that it is a "socialist wet dream."

Originally Posted by Phil306

More people are drawing from it, then paid into it. More people are drawing from it, then the amount of money they did pay into it. As someone said, it IS a ponzi scheme. One generation being relied upon to pay for the other. However, that doesn't take into consideration generational issues, such as less children, not wanting to have children, economic downturns, etc.

Uh, it's an insurance plan. You pay an insurance premium, in the form of a tax on your wages to guarantee you a fixed amount of subsistence based income in the future.

Also, one generation does not pay for the other. Quite clearly if you look at the FICA tax increases throughout history you'll see that the Silent Generation got to collect Social Security benefits because they got slammed with a 520% FICA tax increase.

The reason the Boomers are collecting Social Security now is because they got hit with a 71% FICA tax increase to make sure Social Security would be there for them.

The last FICA tax increase was in 1990.

For those who are a little slow, that was almost 23 years ago.

Social Security has never gone more than 12 years without a tax increase, until recently.

Originally Posted by Phil306

Social security SHOULD be abolished and Medicare right along with it. If you work, make a law where it is MANDATORY where EVERYONE puts 10%, or whatever number can be agreed upon, into their OWN retirement accounts.

You don't seem to understand the concept there, Phil.

Social Security is insurance. Specifically it is Old Age and Survivor's Insurance and Disability Insurance.

What does insurance have to do with saving money?

Nothing....one of these things is not like the other.

Does the government need to be involved? Not with administration or provision, but with with regulating. It doesn't do much good to save money for retirement only to have creditors seize it, or your spouse seize it as a part of divorce settlement, or you lose it through some other quirk.

You don't need the federal government involved here. You do need State government involvement. You need the States to protect insurance fund from seizure, and to dictate the percentage of income to be set aside, based on the cost-of-living and other economic factors in any of the several States.

Aside from that, it can be privatized. You'd have to insulate that part of the finance sector, meaning you can't have your insurance funds tied up in Structured Investment Vehicles and Collatereralized Debt Obligations, because, well, you know, we saw how that worked out for everyone.

Privatizing...

Mircea

Originally Posted by AONE

On the left you have a belief we are our brothers keeper,on the right you have a to hell with you attitude...

No, on the right we ask, "Have you done all that you can do?"

Before you steal my money to subsidize your housing, have you cancelled your cable/satellite? Cancelled your cell-phone, NetFlix, World of Warcraft, gotten rid of two or three of the five cars you don't really need, cut back on your credit card spending, cut back on useless spending like eating out and clothing and entertainment, and are you sharing living accommodations with someone else?

You do those things first, then ask me for money.

With an attitude....

Mircea

Originally Posted by plates

Yes, your intent is to incite hatred in the ways of bigotry and racism.

But of course you're the Amazing Kreskin and you know all.

Originally Posted by plates

But according to you 47 million people means 47 million households.

Are you suggesting that 36 Million Americans are on Social Security Disability?

If not, why not?

Actually, only 10.3 Million Americans receive Social Security Disability (as of December 2011), but 36+ Million people benefit from Social Security Disability, because they live in the same household.

I see you missed the entire point again. You don't see a journalistic double standard in reporting the information? The standard for reporting Food Stamp usage is by household, since Food Stamps are issued only to one person in an household, in the same way that reporting Social Security Disability (and also Social Security and Supplemental Security Income) is by individual.

Originally Posted by plates

Kid, you really need to rethink your posts because they are borderline unintelligible.

Sorry, I wouldn't know how to dumb things down to your level.

Originally Posted by plates

Do you even know what's going on? It's clear that you don't.

He could bury you in an avalanche of data and reality that you'd never dig your way out of.

Why don't you elaborate and show us just how solvent Social Security and Medicare really are, and can you do that without linking to someone else's work?

Originally Posted by plates

You never add anything.

Be careful...you might end up in a psych ward talking to yourself about yourself.

Originally Posted by plates

You can't rest a case when you have never made one.

Are you going to provide something substantive like he asked, or just continue with your really poor Seinfeld imitation?

Substantially...

Mircea