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Public opinion seems to have changed about the seat belt law. I'm guessing that after so many people have been pulled over for bogus reasons, Americans want their rights back.
Your providing me with a poll from 2009 after I mentioned in my post that public opinion is changing.
Look at the poll results here. Do you have any other current polls?
Actually I do not because no one outside of you is really proposing any new polls on this topic. Do you have a more current poll besides this one you have conducted?
Also, did you like the fact that the people of Illinois is the ones who have created the primary seat belt law in your state? Guess you weren't paying attention when that happened.
Your 2 main arguments of A) Seat Belts make us safer and B) Costs to society due to not wearing a seatbelt
have been rebutted and debated extensively. You have provided no further evidence as to WHY you should be concerned about other people's personal decision to wear a seat belt.
Both 'A' and 'B' have been debunked. Relative to other laws and legal activities (smoking, drinking, riding motorcycles, guns, etc) seat belts cause little harm to society and are much safer than the aforementioned.
Do you have any new evidence to bring to the table or are you simply going to rehash those same points constantly?
Your 2 main arguments of A) Seat Belts make us safer and B) Costs to society due to not wearing a seatbelt
have been rebutted and debated extensively. You have provided no further evidence as to WHY you should be concerned about other people's personal decision to wear a seat belt.
Both 'A' and 'B' have been debunked. Relative to other laws and legal activities (smoking, drinking, riding motorcycles, guns, etc) seat belts cause little harm to society and are much safer than the aforementioned.
Do you have any new evidence to bring to the table or are you simply going to rehash those same points constantly?
Actually no they haven't because opinion doesn't count. We are talking about driving and seat belt use, we are not talking about smoking, drinking, riding motorcycles, guns, or whatever. Which in case you didn't notice everything you mentioned also has its own list of laws and limitations.
Do you have any actual evidence to bring to the table or are you going to continue to use opinion as a crutch?
Actually I do not because no one outside of you is really proposing any new polls on this topic. Do you have a more current poll besides this one you have conducted?
Also, did you like the fact that the people of Illinois is the ones who have created the primary seat belt law in your state? Guess you weren't paying attention when that happened.
Actually it was my public defender who 1st brought to my attention the legal issue of seat belt laws. Herself, as well as many others who worked at the court house thought they should be off the books. They had seem the law abused too many times.
In my case, the law was used as probable cause to pull me over. As I stated before in this thread, and several threads over the past 3 years, both me and my passenger were wearing seat belts at the time.
In my case, the additional charges were dropped and it became evident that the officer was a liar, but had the officer done a better job covering his tracks, I could've been convicted of something I was innocent of.
So yes, I know all about seat belt laws designed to "make us safer."
And seeing that the current poll is ongoing, I don't know how you could find a more relevant poll.
Maybe create a newer one?? You might be surprised, opinion might have shifted even further.
Actually it was my public defender who 1st brought to my attention the legal issue of seat belt laws. Herself, as well as many others who worked at the court house thought they should be off the books. They had seem the law abused too many times.
In my case, the law was used as probable cause to pull me over. As I stated before in this thread, and several threads over the past 3 years, both me and my passenger were wearing seat belts at the time.
In my case, the additional charges were dropped and it became evident that the officer was a liar, but had the officer done a better job covering his tracks, I could've been convicted of something I was innocent of.
So yes, I know all about seat belt laws designed to "make us safer."
And seeing that the current poll is ongoing, I don't know how you could find a more relevant poll.
Maybe create a newer one?? You might be surprised, opinion might have shifted even further.
Well I hate to break it to you, but your poll isn't scientific.
Also, you say you were wearing your seat belt, but also claim you often times don't wear your seat belt...so I don't really believe you were wearing your seat belt when you got pulled over, but I also wasn't in the car with you.
So do you think we should have no laws because all laws can be abused?
I honestly can't believe I've wasted this much time debating with you on this issue. With that said, I'm going to give you one more response, and then ignore you for the remainder of my post on this thread. I need to get back to work.
Your arguments so far, all 34 pages worth, have been that #1 seat belts improve safety, and that #2 not wearing a seat belt raises insurance premiums which is passed on to the citizens.
Everybody has agreed seat belts improve safety. There has not been one poster who has said that seat belts don't make you safer. However, what some have argued is that in ALL instances seat belts do not make you safer and that even if seat belts make you safer, its an issue of personal safety and does not need government regulation which requires money and time for enforcement.
I posted articles previously that showed how some people have been saved by not wearing a seat belt. I also shared personal stories as well as several other posters. In the case of those who have been saved by NOT wearing a seat belt, it is not unreasonable for that person to be granted the right to choose whether they should wear their seat belt in the future. It's not the government's place to protect that person, from themself.
Since a seat belt is not ideal for EVERY type of crash, it should not be mandated (by state or federal government) to wear a seat belt. Child seat belt laws and laws for minors are understandable because the person is not deemed to be of age to make sound judgement or discretion. Statistically, yes, that child or minor has the highest chance of survival in a seat belt.
So yes, your 1st notion that seat belts improve safety is correct. However, its not sufficient to mandate seat belt usage. Especially when its usage physically only effects the user. From a financial standpoint, there are things that are of equal or greater risk, that are still legal. Smoking and drinking are more dangerous to society AND carry a higher financial burden but are both legal. Motorcycle riding is another past time of equal or higher risk.
Some Americans believe we need LESS government interference. Not more.
So your 1st issue of seat belts statistically making you safer is true. However, it does not make you safer in EVERY case, and there are many practical reasons why people aren't wearing their seat belts. Some are just driving short distances to get things. It affects some people's natural driving position. Others might be bigger individuals who are uncomfortable in seat belts. Some Americans wear seat belts in certain occasions like on the highways or in bad road conditions. 1 in 7 Americans don't wear seat belts.
Also, statistically, its still very unlikely that you are going to die as a result of not wearing a seat belt. You have a much higher chance dying due to smoking or eating unhealthy. Statistically, seat belts saved 17,490 lives in 2009. That number is exaggerated in your favor just to prove a point.
33,000 Americans died in car accidents that year. 53% of those that died that year were not wearing seat belts. So to assume that 17,490 people were killed because they were NOT wearing a seat belt is too high of an estimate. It can not be determined whether the person would have survived if they were strapped in. But for our model, lets assume ALL people would have survived if they were wearing their seat belt.
So if 17,490 people were saved due to the seat belt that year, and there are 310 million people in this country, then your chances of dying that year due to not wearing a seat belt (with our high estimate) would have been .00005641935%.
That means that statistically, my chances of surviving the year while not wearing a seat belt would be 99.99994%
Not a stupid risk to take at all. If I smoked cigarettes I'd have a much, much higher chance of dying, and have a much higher financial burden on the general public.
Looking back over what I've presented so far, I don't think I need to further discuss the financial costs to society. In the relative scheme of things, seat belt usage is a minor issue as far as insurance costs in this country. There's much more dangerous issues that could be addressed before seat belt usage like gun rights, alcohol usage, and tobacco usage. However, I don't believe that other Americans should lose their rights just because something carries risk. We've been fine as a country for decades without too much government interference and I think we could continue to have liberty if we learn to regulate our society through education and information rather than turning our people into criminals or revenue generators.
I'll respond to other posters and hope that the debate turns into something productive.
This should refresh your memory Urbanlife.
Smoking
Much higher threat to society. The leading cause of death in this country. Perfectly legal. Why nor protect the user from themself??
"Each year, an estimated 443,000 people die prematurely from smoking or exposure to secondhand smoke, and another 8.6 million live with a serious illness caused by smoking. Despite these risks, approximately 46.6 million U.S. adults smoke cigarettes. "
Much more of a threat to society. It not only impacts the user, but the general public. Drunk driving is the leading cause of vehicle crashes.
"Alcohol abuse kills some 75,000 Americans each year and shortens the lives of these people by an average of 30 years, a U.S. government study suggested Thursday."
Much higher percentage of Americans die who ride motorcycles, than those not wearing seat belts.
"Motorcycle fatalities per year: Over 4,000 people die in motorcycle accidents each year. In 2008, a record of 5,209 fatalities occurred due to motorcycle accidents."
So do you wish to talk about smoking, drinking, and motorcycle riding more than seat belts? Seems like seat belts aren't the biggest issue so do you want me to focus on those things instead cause you have definitely proven that there are much more dangerous things out there.
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