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The above just shows the lack of understanding as to how culture and heritage affects people. Again, there is really no such thing as "black" people. And frankly, when those people can cease to be simply "black" and have a better connection with their roots and culture, it will likely make for better lives for the problematic minority of African-Americans.
Sorry, what exactly is the state of affairs in the African-American "community" according to you? And secondly, why wouldn't the AA ethnic group be unique? Aren't all cultures unique in different ways?
Honestly, don't worry. I don't like or dislike it but am rather indifferent. It's quite typical.
Again, since you have yet to answer the question. Are you of Caribbean background since you seem to like to compare?
I did answer your question...are you reading this thread or not?
You don't seem to be giving the group of people who you are offended that I refer to as "black Americans" any way to re-connect with the ancient cultures.
I am the only one in this thread that suggested a START by actually getting on a plane and visiting the continent. But you shot that down as a stupid idea to start a re-connection.
So, as I see it, any attempt that a person from the ethnic group whose name offends you as you don't like the term "black American" would make to get back to their roots would not help at all to begin to fix the broken family structure that, curiously, did not seem so broken before white progressive got a hold of it.
Believe me...if Americans of Italian descent were on MSNBC, CNN and the other mass media infotainment outlets screaming about the prevalence of organized crime in their community in 2014 was due to white Anglo-Saxon protestant Americans and their unfair treatment of new immigrants in the early 20th Century I'd be rolling my eyes at them too.
Sorry to break it to you but the Jewish people were almost WIPED OUT. That is an unimaginable horror. You should read about the holocaust sometime.
There are hundreds of languages and cultures still thriving in West Africa just as they have been for centuries.
There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING stopping black Americans from reconnecting to their ancient cultures except full-time excuse making.
Get on a plane and take a tour of West Africa. Live there a while and learn. So easy yet 98% of black Americans choose not to do it.
So stop it with the whole "violence in our communities is due to slave owners taking our culture" routine.
It got old 40 years ago and only gets more and more stale everyday.
We can go back and fourth with this but the root of the disagreement is insurmountable. A person like me starts with a simple premise. Black humanity = all other humanity. Thus, logically, the only way that an equality, mathematically, can be turned into an inequality is if something is done to one side of the equal sign that is not done to the other. If one side is exposed to something, in degree or kind, that the other side was not exposed to, while intrinsically being equal, will result in an inequality. For example, if one takes two seeds, that are, for all intents and purposes, genetically equal, yet, plant them in separate and hence unequal climatic conditions, with one experiencing different degrees of rain, sunlight, temperatures, soil composition and the like, its likely that the two seeds will produce different yields.
Now, its obvious to me where you are coming from when talking about the "black seed". Each and every time someone brings up the climatic history and conditions under which the black seed was planted in, you dismiss the difference in rain, soil, sunlight, temperatures and the like, by pointing out other "seeds" that flourished in similar, if not worse, climatic conditions. Now, its clear that when one dismisses the climate and environment as explaining difference in the yields of the seeds, they are saying that the cause of the difference is rooted in the seeds themselves. In other words, the "black seed" is intrinsically inferior, which is the only thing left to explain the inferior yields.
No "human" groups have a greater or less propensity to make excuses. Why would black people be any more predisposed to make excuses? What African tribe is known for this trait? If it did not come from Africa, and its cultural, then guess what....we learned it from white folks while being acculturated to America. Explain to me the mechanism of how blacks are inflicted with this, yet, whites, Jews, Asians and the like are not? You cannot. You see, what you see as excuses are actually all the other things, besides natural inferiority, that would explain the situation. Thus, when one believes that the true cause of dysfunction and lower performance in the black community is inherent/genetic, every other reason given will be seen as an excuse.
We can go back and fourth with this but the root of the disagreement is insurmountable. A person like me starts with a simple premise. Black humanity = all other humanity. Thus, logically, the only way that an equality, mathematically, can be turned into an inequality is if something is done to one side of the equal sign that is not done to the other. If one side is exposed to something, in degree or kind, that the other side was not exposed to, while intrinsically being equal, will result in an inequality. For example, if one takes two seeds, that are, for all intents and purposes, genetically equal, yet, plant them in separate and hence unequal climatic conditions, with one experiencing different degrees of rain, sunlight, temperatures, soil composition and the like, its likely that the two seeds will produce different yields.
Now, its obvious to me where you are coming from when talking about the "black seed". If each and every time someone brings up the climatic history and conditions under which the black seed was planted in, you dismiss the difference in rain, soil, sunlight, temperatures and the like, by pointing out other "seeds" that flourished in similar, if not worse, climatic conditions. Now, its clear that when one dismisses the climate and environment as explaining difference in the yields of the seeds, they are saying that the cause of the difference is rooted in the seeds themselves. In other words, the "black seed" is intrinsically inferior, which is the only thing left to explain the inferior yields.
No "human" groups have a greater or less propensity to make excuses. Why would black people be any more predisposed to make excuses? What African tribe is know for this trait? Explain to me the mechanism of how blacks are inflicted with this, yet, whites, Jews, Asians and the like are not? You cannot. You see, what you see as excuses are actually all the other things, besides natural inferiority, that would explain the situation. Thus, when one believes that the true cause of dysfunction and lower performance in the black community is inherent/genetic, every other reason given will be seen as an excuse.
Nope...I sure didn't say blacks were inferior but it would definitely help your argument if I did so I can see why you tried to slip that in there.
In fact, for the THIRD time in this thread...it is about CULTURE not RACE.
Nope...I sure didn't say blacks were inferior but it would definitely help your argument if I did so I can see why you tried to slip that in there.
In fact, for the THIRD time in this thread...it is about CULTURE not RACE.
Culture is just a euphemism for people to use so they will not sound racist. Obviously to say that black people have an inferior culture is perceived as a safe way of saying that blacks are inferior, by not linking it to genetics. Let me ask you this then. How is culture formed? Is it not a learned behavior? Given that blacks are not practicing African Culture, what then was the mechanism that morphed and altered the culture practiced by African Americans? In other words, explain the evolution from African culture to the culture of blacks in America?
I'll pop some popcorn in eager anticipation of your answer to this one.....or....you can quit before you further expose your true feelings.
Culture is just a euphemism for people to use so they will not sound racist. Obviously to say that black people have an inferior culture is perceived as a safe way of saying that blacks are inferior, by not linking it to genetics. Let me ask you this then. How is culture formed? Is it not a learned behavior? Given that blacks are not practicing African Culture, what then was the mechanism that morphed and altered the culture practiced by African Americans? In other words, explain the evolution from African culture to the culture of blacks in America?
I'll pop some popcorn in eager anticipation of your answer to this one.....or....you can quit before you further expose your true feelings.
The first two times I noted that it is about culture and not race I SPECIFICALLY noted the achieving culture of blacks from the Caribbean who immigrate to the U.S.
So there goes your "'culture' is a euphemism to hide racism" fallacy.
Just go back and read what I wrote if you don't see it.
To answer your question:
Parents.
Uncles and Aunts.
Pastors.
Teachers.
Coaches.
And other influencers in the immediate vicinity in any community.
Not "the white man" who may live 20 miles away in the "white" community.
This is how a culture is formed and passed down generation to generation.
==
And regarding my "true feelings"...why would I need to hide such feelings?
This isn't a job interview or first date so I can just write what I feel.
It sounds like you'd wish for me to be some sort of white nationalist stereotype who just slams black people willy-nilly.
Sorry guys...I'm just a person who sees things as they are and was never good at adopting PC illusions as some sort of feel good cloak against reality.
I see blacks just as I see whites...some good, some bad.
Speaking truthfully isn't racist...it may not be polite but it isn't racist.
I did answer your question...are you reading this thread or not?
You don't seem to be giving the group of people who you are offended that I refer to as "black Americans" any way to re-connect with the ancient cultures.
I am the only one in this thread that suggested a START by actually getting on a plane and visiting the continent. But you shot that down as a stupid idea to start a re-connection.
So, as I see it, any attempt that a person from the ethnic group whose name offends you as you don't like the term "black American" would make to get back to their roots would not help at all to begin to fix the broken family structure that, curiously, did not seem so broken before white progressive got a hold of it.
Believe me...if Americans of Italian descent were on MSNBC, CNN and the other mass media infotainment outlets screaming about the prevalence of organized crime in their community in 2014 was due to white Anglo-Saxon protestant Americans and their unfair treatment of new immigrants in the early 20th Century I'd be rolling my eyes at them too.
This discussion is clearly beyond your mode of thinking and the above simplistic thinking of African cultures. My post is dealing their them learning their individual culture(s). How is exactly is "visiting the continent" automically doing that? Please...LOL.
The first two times I noted that it is about culture and not race I SPECIFICALLY noted the achieving culture of blacks from the Caribbean who immigrate to the U.S.
So there goes your "'culture' is a euphemism to hide racism" fallacy.
Just go back and read what I wrote if you don't see it.
To answer your question:
Parents.
Uncles and Aunts.
Pastors.
Teachers.
Coaches.
And other influencers in the immediate vicinity in any community.
Not "the white man" who may live 20 miles away in the "white" community.
This is how a culture is formed and passed down generation to generation.
==
And regarding my "true feelings"...why would I need to hide such feelings?
This isn't a job interview or first date so I can just write what I feel.
It sounds like you'd wish for me to be some sort of white nationalist stereotype who just slams black people willy-nilly.
Sorry guys...I'm just a person who sees things as they are and was never good at adopting PC illusions as some sort of feel good cloak against reality.
I see blacks just as I see whites...some good, some bad.
Speaking truthfully isn't racist...it may not be polite but it isn't racist.
UH.....no! When dealing with immigrants, you are dealing with a SUB SET of the, in your example, Caribbean people. For example, after Apartheid ended in South Africa, some African Americans immigrated to SA. Guess what? They performed socioeconomically much better than the indigenous black population in South Africa. However, if you took the super set of All African Americans and send them to SA, those statistics would not likely hold up.
To immigrate from one country to another demonstrates a certain level of drive, ingenuity, background, connections or eduction that makes you stand out from others in the land where you are from. There are many people in the Caribbean who would love to come to America, but they don't make it. Thus, those who do make it are generally not microcosms of the general population from which they are from. Hence, its not really intelligent to juxtapose a filtered subset against the aggregate average of the super set of African Americans. The truth is that the immigrants would have and likely did stand out above the crowd in their own country. That is not always the case, but that is the general rule. Do you know what the homicide rate is in places like Jamaica?
This discussion is clearly beyond your mode of thinking and the above simplistic thinking of African cultures. My post is dealing their them learning their individual culture(s). How is exactly is "visiting the continent" automically doing that? Please...LOL.
Geez, Louise.
As I've tried twice to explain before..."visiting the continent" is not a solution...it is a START.
If you TRULY desire for (and I don't know which politically correct phrase you wish to read here so I will just stick with "black" even though in your world it is the improper term) black people in America to re-connect with where their people originated then I'd think you wouldn't be so dismissive of a START...such as visiting the lands of their ancestors.
The whole point of me saying "visit the continent" is that is a very obvious and simple way for black Americans to begin a journey of discovery.
Unlike North Koreans, black Americans are free to travel anywhere they wish (except Cuba, Iran, etc....you know what I mean).
Perhaps a visit will spark a greater desire to continue a self-guided education about African history and perhaps if all goes well within a couple of generations MOST black Americans will have the self-confidence and self-respect to totally reject thuggish sub-cultures within America (and, yes, I know it isn't just blacks who participate in this behavior but like it or not blacks are tagged with being the main propagators of this and if there are no easy examples for media to point to then the tag falls off).
If you really wish to improve the levels of self-respect in the black American community then throw out some ideas of your own instead of ripping me for suggesting a visit to Africa (gosh...what a crazy idea ).
No, so yeah I guess that disqualifies me from understanding the self-inflicted wounds of African-Americans-- I get it.
I'm not Thai either so I shouldn't try to understand why Thailand is going through so much political strife right now because, y'know, I'm not Thai.
Geez.
What a nonsensical comment. I ask you whether or not you are of Caribbean background since you made a comparison. Not sure why you think that has anything to do with what you claim are self-inflicted wounds of African-Americans. It just sounded like you threw out Afro-Caribbean people as though you are so aware of our progress and challenges. Guess not...LOL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10
The first two times I noted that it is about culture and not race I SPECIFICALLY noted the achieving culture of blacks from the Caribbean who immigrate to the U.S.
So there goes your "'culture' is a euphemism to hide racism" fallacy.
Just go back and read what I wrote if you don't see it.
To answer your question:
Parents.
Uncles and Aunts.
Pastors.
Teachers.
Coaches.
And other influencers in the immediate vicinity in any community.
Not "the white man" who may live 20 miles away in the "white" community.
This is how a culture is formed and passed down generation to generation.
==
And regarding my "true feelings"...why would I need to hide such feelings?
This isn't a job interview or first date so I can just write what I feel.
It sounds like you'd wish for me to be some sort of white nationalist stereotype who just slams black people willy-nilly.
Sorry guys...I'm just a person who sees things as they are and was never good at adopting PC illusions as some sort of feel good cloak against reality.
I see blacks just as I see whites...some good, some bad.
Speaking truthfully isn't racist...it may not be polite but it isn't racist.
Caribbean people of African descent have different cultures that evolved differently after slavery. There may have been colonialism but no Jim Crow. There was far more opportunity to regroup and establish our own cultures. Even still, many Caribbean nations have serious issues. Stop comparing different cultures as though you are completely aware of what it going on. Further, immigrants from all over often do better than native born/generational Americans. It's the immigrant drive.
UH.....no! When dealing with immigrants, you are dealing with a SUB SET of the, in your example, Caribbean people. For example, after Apartheid ended in South Africa, some African Americans immigrated to SA. Guess what? They performed socioeconomically much better than the indigenous black population in South Africa. However, if you took the super set of All African Americans and send them to SA, those statistics would not likely hold up.
To immigrate from one country to another demonstrates a certain level of drive, ingenuity, background, connections or eduction that makes you stand out from others in the land where you are from. There are many people in the Caribbean who would love to come to America, but they don't make it. Thus, those who do make it are generally not microcosms of the general population from which they are from. Hence, its not really intelligent to juxtapose a filtered subset against the aggregate average of the super set of African Americans. The truth is that the immigrants would have and likely did stand out above the crowd in their own country. That is not always the case, but that is the general rule. Do you know what the homicide rate is in places like Jamaica?
O.K. fair point but...
What are the statistics of achievement regarding black immigrants to the USA @ HBCUs?
Since, presumably, ALL of those students exhibit above average drive you'd think that foreign born blacks and American born blacks would perform at generally the same level, right?
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