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Old 03-11-2013, 06:52 PM
 
Location: Florida
76,971 posts, read 47,640,534 times
Reputation: 14806

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
I disagree.
You disagree with your own argument? All righty then.

No further comment.
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:55 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,634,918 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12GO View Post
aNOTHER ISLAMIST LOVER (WHO CONVERTED TO ISLAM WHEN HE WAS STATIONED IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND CONVERTED BY AN iam THAT IS ANYTHING BUT A FRIEND TO THE USA) THAT SHOULD BE IN JAIL AND NOT RUNNING THE CIA.


So, is it official?
Have we quit beating around the bush?

Are we admitting this has been a holy war from the start?
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:11 AM
 
7,359 posts, read 5,463,530 times
Reputation: 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
From your link:

"Some critics indiscriminately decry all drone strikes as “extrajudicial assassinations,” arguing that killing is never lawful beyond the battlefield and even comparing the practice to former president George W. Bush’s authorization of torture. But those criticisms are exaggerated and misguided. Killing and torture are fundamentally different. Governments have always killed the enemy during wars, and it is not unlawful to do so. No one accuses Abraham Lincoln or Franklin Roosevelt of “extrajudicial assassinations” because their troops killed tens of thousands of enemy soldiers without charges or trials. That the Confederate soldiers were American citizens doesn’t change that fact. And even in the absence of an existing war, and therefore outside any battlefield, states are permitted to use lethal force to respond to an imminent armed attack."
We don't use drones to foil imminent armed attacks. We use them to assassinate people. And it isn't the drone itself that the issue. The issue is whether or not the President has the authority to have an American citizen on American soil assassinated without trial. The question is about assassination. And if someone is about to conduct an attack then that is not an assassination. I think it's pretty well understood that Rand Paul wasn't talking about taking someone out who in the process of carrying out a terrorist attack. He's talking about using drones here the same way they are used elsewhere, to reach out and kill someone in a surprise attack.
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Old 03-12-2013, 04:46 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,951,723 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidkaos2 View Post
We don't use drones to foil imminent armed attacks. We use them to assassinate people. And it isn't the drone itself that the issue. The issue is whether or not the President has the authority to have an American citizen on American soil assassinated without trial. The question is about assassination. And if someone is about to conduct an attack then that is not an assassination. I think it's pretty well understood that Rand Paul wasn't talking about taking someone out who in the process of carrying out a terrorist attack. He's talking about using drones here the same way they are used elsewhere, to reach out and kill someone in a surprise attack.
What's the difference using drones or FBI sharpshooters? If Timothy McVey was known to be on a road with a truck full of explosives intent upon blowing up a building, would the use of a drone to stop him been appropriate?
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Old 03-12-2013, 04:52 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,971 posts, read 47,640,534 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
What's the difference using drones or FBI sharpshooters? If Timothy McVey was known to be on a road with a truck full of explosives intent upon blowing up a building, would the use of a drone to stop him been appropriate?
That's what I have been asking, but no one will answer. What makes the drones so much more evil than the other tools of death?
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Old 03-12-2013, 06:01 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,210,872 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
What's the difference using drones or FBI sharpshooters? If Timothy McVey was known to be on a road with a truck full of explosives intent upon blowing up a building, would the use of a drone to stop him been appropriate?
It would depend on how it was done. But then again, I will ask. If this is known why not simply stop and arrest him? The FBI is allowed to shoot and kill in certain instances American citizens. A president is not.

Even then the FBI has to be able to justify their actions. The presidents position so far has been that he does not.
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Old 03-12-2013, 06:06 AM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,054,479 times
Reputation: 10270
It was an awesome display.

We need constitutional discussion rather than political infighting.
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Old 03-12-2013, 07:23 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,634,918 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
What's the difference using drones or FBI sharpshooters? If Timothy McVey was known to be on a road with a truck full of explosives intent upon blowing up a building, would the use of a drone to stop him been appropriate?


No, that would all be speculative.

If he is driving, he is alive and it would mandate a traffic stop, with a warrant from a judge, to search the vehicle.
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Old 03-12-2013, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,971 posts, read 47,640,534 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
No, that would all be speculative.

If he is driving, he is alive and it would mandate a traffic stop, with a warrant from a judge, to search the vehicle.
And if he is not stopping, and getting close to his target? Of couse the use of force is authorized. Paul's pacificm and willingness to defend the terrorist could have disasterous concequences.
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Old 03-12-2013, 08:24 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,210,872 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
And if he is not stopping, and getting close to his target? Of couse the use of force is authorized. Paul's pacificm and willingness to defend the terrorist could have disasterous concequences.
The use of force has always been used to stop a driver that won't stop. Nobody is against that.
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