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Yes, but it's not really the rich who form their base, it lower-middle class whites. That's primarily who posts that type of nonsense on this forum at all hours of the day. By definition, they have to be self-loathing, given that they believe:
1. If you work hard enough, you can be wealthy.
2. They are not wealthy.
3. Thus, they just haven't worked hard enough.
This is why they love to bash the poor. They can say, "Hey, at least I'm not as bad as those lazy SOBs over there!" And, of course, there are the yokels who get duped into the, "The queers are coming, the queers are coming! Planned Parenthood is taking your money to pay for abortions! The coloreds are coming for your white women!"
If someone has a better explanation for this phenomenon with lower middle-class whites, I'm all ears.
Well, this is where I'll give lower middle class whites some slack. Given the history of this nation. Given the society they were born into. Given the changing nature of the economic health of many lower middle class white men. Given the crappy schools, the fading industries, etc and so that many lower middle class whites experience, it not surprising that they see their relative decline as the result of the rise of those people.
Especially when you have very rich conservatives stoking those old ideas.
This is exactly my point. This is what Republicans believe and it leads to policies that undermine attempts to create upward pressure on wages.
Why are you complaining about the unemployment rate, dwindling wages, and the lost jobs when you support businesses doing all the things that lead to them?
Yes, but it's not really the rich who form their base, it lower-middle class whites. That's primarily who posts that type of nonsense on this forum at all hours of the day. By definition, they have to be self-loathing, given that they believe:
1. If you work hard enough, you can be wealthy.
2. They are not wealthy.
3. Thus, they just haven't worked hard enough.
This is why they love to bash the poor. They can say, "Hey, at least I'm not as bad as those lazy SOBs over there!" And, of course, there are the yokels who get duped into the, "The queers are coming, the queers are coming! Planned Parenthood is taking your money to pay for abortions! The coloreds are coming for your white women!"
If someone has a better explanation for this phenomenon with lower middle-class whites, I'm all ears.
And Republican ideology has also trained them to believe that any question about their situation is not being a good Republican. How else do you get people who lost their job through outsourcing to vote for a guy who voted to let your company outsource your job.
And to make them feel like they got something out of deal, after losing their job, Republican establishment "fights" for their right to keep their guns and stop the gays from corrupting the country.
Wow, you are so confused. You need to read more. I have one word for you and it's call entitlements. You want to know why the U.S is in such bad shape, it's because we don't spend tax dollars on anything useful. Left wing looney tunes are constantly creating stupid laws that hurt businesses and don't give people the incentive to work.
You are correct about the outsourcing though. What a disgrace, the U.S is slowly dying.
The question that you asked is very complicated and to be honest I don't feel like writing an essay. Both the right and the left do a lot of things to hurt this country, it's not just Republicans. There is a cold civil war going on in this country and it's being fought by two morons.
Conservatives "complain" about the economy under Obama -- the stagnating wages, the lack of jobs, etc -- but in reality, they are perfectly okay w/ the way things things are. They have to be since this is the outcome that is supposed to happen w/ the policies Republicans support. How is this economy NOT the scenario we end up w/ when businesses have the support of Republicans to outsource jobs, import cheaper employees, strip collective bargaining power from workers, and give the rich every incentive to keep as much money as they can?
That's odd. I thought you wanted to have an honest conversation, sans any games.
Perhaps you should perform some introspection prior to resuming this discussion.
Uh huh... it never fails. When the Conservative or Libertarian agenda is accurately pegged in an unflattering light it becomes "you don't know a thing about [blah]. "
Your post was a strawman, Eddie. Of course you tore it to shreds. You made it up in the first place. Duh. That's how stawmen work. You make up an argument, attribute it to your opponents, and then tear it down.
You haven't "accurately pegged the conservative agenda in an unflattering light" when you haven't accurately pegged the agenda in the first place. What you pegged in an unflattering light was a strawman, not the conservative libertarian agenda.
Quote:
And then there's usually an attempt to distance yourself from the policy by calling yourself something like a constitutional conservative, or musket & breeches Republican, or some other hackneyed term. All that space spent telling me I don't understand Conservatism, and yet nothing about where I'm wrong...
Why should I argue against a strawman? It's not my job to argue in favor of a position I never held to begin with.
Quote:
There's even a question in my OP dealing w/ your inevitable crying:
No, there isn't. There's a question in your original post asking Republicans to prove that Republican policies exert an upward pressure on wages. Don't try to mischaracterize it now. I read your original post.
I even pointed you to two conservative economic philosophers. If I was just crying at how you'd accurately pegged my agenda as unflattering, then I wouldn't have done that. If you were indeed accurate, then pointing you to source material would only reinforce your accuracy.
It's funny how in a thread you titled being being honest and not playing games you're more interested in gloating about how right you are than in actually finding out what the conservative agenda is from an actual conservative himself. Your true colors are showing. Honesty would be asking me what my agenda is, not insisting you pegged it accurately even after I said you didn't. You're trying to be right, not true and honest.
Conservatives "complain" about the economy under Obama -- the stagnating wages, the lack of jobs, etc -- but in reality, they are perfectly okay w/ the way things things are. They have to be since this is the outcome that is supposed to happen w/ the policies Republicans support. How is this economy NOT the scenario we end up w/ when businesses have the support of Republicans to outsource jobs, import cheaper employees, strip collective bargaining power from workers, and give the rich every incentive to keep as much money as they can?
Take any problem that's wrong w/ the economy and ask yourself: what's the Republican solution to fix it?
Barely livable wages for the working poor? Cut taxes for the rich, cut welfare, repeal min wage.
Stagnating wages for the middle class? Cut taxes for the rich, cut benefits that help their kids go to college
Dwindling job openings? Cut taxes for the rich, cut gov't spending on public jobs so that there's not competition w/ private wages.
Overworked employees earning less of a share of profits? Cut taxes on the rich, push for "right to work" status.
Unqualified applicants for technical jobs? Cut taxes for the rich, bring in cheaper applicants from overseas.
I would be interested to know of any positions on the Right that put UPWARD pressure on wages... We already know what the current trend of downward pressure leads to: more people fighting for fewer jobs at lower wages creating less demand in the economy. So what do the Republicans have in their wheel house that puts the upward pressure on wages?
If Republicans think I'm full of bs, fine. But I'd like to hear which problem w/ the economy that you think the Republican solution fixes, and how it will end w/ upward pressure on wages.
You, or rather your post, is a perfect example of what Reagan spoke about when he said, in effect that it isn't what people don't know that is the problem, but what they think they know, that isn't true.
Your post is the embodiment, par excellance` of that phenomenon.
You would have made a lot more sense with a post that read
" ".
JFK said a rising tide lifts all boats.
The government consumes too much, and it isn't coming form the middle to lower end, where effective tax rates are zero or lower, but from the upper class who pay a grossly-dispropotionate share of the taxes.
All the things which you ascribe to Republicans (right to work, etc) are actually good for the employees of American companies. Note, I didn't call them "workers", because that is a nebulous, meaningless terms. Rather, they are employees of companies that use their services (labor) to make a profit, and for no other purpose. The employee's potential success is related, joined at the hip, with the companies potential success. Help the company to succeed, and you help the employee to succeed. Hinder the company, hinder the employee.
If the supply of labor compared to demand, is so high as to drive supply-and-demand driven wages, down, employees need to do the same thing that companies have to do when the supply of the product they sell is so high that prices fall.
Adapt. Grow diffent crops, stop manufacturing buggy-whips, and start making car-interior's etc. Those that refuse, well your fate is your own and of your own making.
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