Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The poor aren't necessarily stating that they know how to run a country, but they believe this or that legislation would do well for their pockets.
Exactly, The left think nothing attacking, demanding higher taxes on the other guy, the doctor or small business owner who is "working" and earning their way to pad their own pockets. The ignorance, they parrot Obama and the dems without knowing the difference between ... and they have a vote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMOREBOY
You and I have had a discussion in my thread that suggests making those lower in the social ladder invest and save, and we've had things we've agreed upon but to suggest the poor are the ones influencing our politicians to raise taxes on the rich is a bit inane.
Influencing lol, no, of course not. The poor are being used for political purposes with the "promise" that the Democrats will "again" do well by their pockets. You are smart enough to recognize these manipulation techniques.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMOREBOY
the country is facing a revenue short-fall as we all know and many of the wealthy aren't paying a share that is proportionate to their wealth therefore the left-wing wants them to pay their right share.
People who "do NOT" or refuse to work and take from the system generation through generation, not contributing but actually are part of the problem... have the audacity to demand that others pay their fair share. That takes ****! And they vote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMOREBOY
All wealthy people aren't evading their taxes yet plenty of Democrats don't really know that, the problem is their wealth isn't coming from a income but instead capital dividends and investments that are taxed low. When Democrats suggest raising taxes on the wealthy while barley suggesting closing-loopholes are only hurting those whom are wealthy that actually work for a living i.e. a doctor.
Exactly, they don't even realize or understand it, why should they? Why would they care? Just raise taxes on the other guy and give me more is their mentality. And they vote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMOREBOY
the people you hurt when you raise taxes on are the ones who actually do hard work to get their income.
The sentence in red bears repeating.
Listening to the left attack hard working Americans and the manipulation of the poor to further the agenda of the left. And they have a vote...or two... or three ( after all it is too hard for some to get a acceptable voter ID). These people expect the same result regardless of input.
A doctor has invested his / her time and money to get an education to be able to help the sick. I want my doctor to be highly paid because they deserve it.
And voting for a man that thinks taxing the other guy tells me how you think. Tax the rich! You carelessly handed your power over to a politician who has already forgotten you, he will be back when he needs you to put pressure on so he can push his tax the rich and green energy agenda, then he will disappear again. Now that the vote has been cast, guess what... you don't have the power and the poor are still poor.
Saez, who's known for his work on the income gap, has highlighted a surprising and discouraging fact: during the post-recession period of 2009 and 2010, the rich snagged a greater share of total income growth than they did during the boom years of 2002 to 2007. In other words, inequality has been even more pronounced under Obama than it was under George W. Bush.
Taxation was not invented by the poor. Taxation was created by the powerful to stay that way. Durring our nation's creation, what was the battle cry..."No taxation without representation."
If you have a problem with your taxes, that is between you and your representative...not the "poor".
Blaming others on how they vote is not a solution to your problems. The "poor" are not a monolithic group. Americans move into and out of poverty constantly.
Attempting to restict anyone's voting rights is as sound a democratic principle as resticting an American voting based on Color, Sex or even Sexual Orientation. Absolutley ridiculous.
No, that is how democratic politicians think, keep the poor down so they stay in power. And you hand it right to them. And your right, anyone can be born poor, I was. It is what you do about it that matters.
Do you really think this? What about all the rich Republicans out there? It seems to be both parties and a lot of other people who's rich. Some of them don't care. They got THEIR foot in the door, screw the rest of the people. Heck some even just slam the door in the other people's faces. It seems to be the same with immigration. People forget that this country was founded by immigrants. This country was built by immigrants. If you think about it, the only people who really have the right to be here are the Native Americans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751
That does not make sense? People paying higher taxes because Democrats keep raising taxes are hard working and obviously they don't have the power to stop it so where is the power you talk about? If you want to claim the big business has power over the workers, then the workers can stop working for them start their own business and take that power away from them.
People complain about the poor because the poor don't work or pay their way. It is not about power but the more you depend on someone else the more power you give up to them. So the democrats in power take from hard working Americans claiming they are looking out for the poor but did you notice that the poor got anything extra. Not much if any, yet the democrats will keep using these words because they know it works. Do you really think the poor will vote for anyone that says "jobs, jobs, jobs"
I do wish the poor would get off their behinds and work though and stop looking at everyone else to pay for their existence. Instead all I hear is a bunch of ballyhooing.
I got 15 kids and someones got to be held accountable. Someones got to pay. (just one example)
I believe that what you present here is part of the minority. I live with my family and I'd probably consider myself part of the lower middle class. Not yet poor. However, If I were to just go out on my own, I would definitely be poor. I have only around 500 in savings and tons of student loan and credit card debt. Here's the thing though, I don't want to live off welfare. Partly because of my pride I think but still. even if I was on the street homeless with no food or anything I would still refuse welfare. I'm a hard worker and I pride myself for it.
Work your way out of poverty.. like many people do.
There is a problem with this. I understand there are studies out there saying that America's upward mobility has started to slow down. Not many people born today will be able to get above the poverty line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751
If they don't pay taxes then don't have skin in the game. Do you like it when politicians vote themselves a raise? In this case you think you voted yourself a raise.
So yes, that is what I said. No taxes -> no say!
I work minimum wage at a small home based company. I get cash up front. Probably not enough to pay taxes on either so I don't pay taxes on that income. Does that mean I don't have a right to vote or have a say in government?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech
The top 1% also, through their lobbyists, gotten their taxes reduced significantly from what they were over 30 years ago. That has resulted in the greatest inequality since the 1920s. Other countries, who also have people who 'provide a service or produce' and they don't have the inequality that we do. It's all due to lopsided policies that us leftists want to change.
(Aww. It didn't show the graph. Oh well. The graph shows the last part of the 1910s.)
The Guilded Age. When bigshots used to roam Wall Street making runs on the banks and buying politicians in Washington. Ahh those were the days. Then that windbag Teddy Roosevelt had to mess everything up with his trust busting and muckraking and reforming the government ruining all those monopolist's fun. (Just kidding. I liked Teddy Roosevelt. The other Roosevelt too.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimuelojones
Taxation was not invented by the poor. Taxation was created by the powerful to stay that way. Durring our nation's creation, what was the battle cry..."No taxation without representation."
If you have a problem with your taxes, that is between you and your representative...not the "poor".
Blaming others on how they vote is not a solution to your problems. The "poor" are not a monolithic group. Americans move into and out of poverty constantly.
Attempting to restict anyone's voting rights is as sound a democratic principle as resticting an American voting based on Color, Sex or even Sexual Orientation. Absolutley ridiculous.
There is a difference between buying from a nation and being a citizen of that nation.
Quote:
I can't see how you would know how someone else thinks. There can be 10 different people who think poor people shouldn't vote, and they can have 10 different reasons for thinking that way.
But the point is, the thirst for power is still the same. What is the harm in letting someone who doesn't work vote? My father is employed now, but at one time he wasn't working. Should he have had his voting rights revoked?
And why else would someone suggest that some U.S. citizens shouldn't vote? It has nothing to do with "earned" right. It has more to do with those who have power trying to keep it for themselves.
People who think only the elite should vote -- which is another way of saying only they should decide how a nation should be run are not only antagonistic to the notion of democracy but fail to learn the lessons of history. The elite being the sole decisions makers was the standard prior to the American experiment.
Inevitably, if the elite are in charge, they will skew the rules to benefit of themselves (even more than their lobbyists have already done.) France is a noteworthy example, where the nobility eventually lost their heads for their overreach.
People who think only the elite should vote -- which is another way of saying only they should decide how a nation should be run are not only antagonistic to the notion of democracy but fail to learn the lessons of history. The elite being the sole decisions makers was the standard prior to the American experiment.
Inevitably, if the elite are in charge, they will skew the rules to benefit of themselves (even more than their lobbyists have already done.) France is a noteworthy example, where the nobility eventually lost their heads for their overreach.
The fact is, as much as it goes against what America is suppose to be about, it has happened in America, and it is very hypocritical. When it started, in 1790, only White male land owners could vote. The land ownership requirement wasn't eliminated until 1850. The poll tax was used in many states at one time. The 24th Amendment made it illegal in 1964. The USA has had a history of making it hard for even American citizens to vote.
It is not what America is suppose to be about. However, this nation has done it anyway. And you have realized what it is about. Elites wanted to keep the control for themselves. It wasn't about making sure the people had a say. Whenever I hear people say "felons shouldn't vote" or "the unemployed shouldn't vote" or "the poor shouldn't vote", I know that it has nothing to do with "fairness". It has alot to do with keeping political power within a certain segment of society. It is about the love of power and control.
Taxation was not invented by the poor. Taxation was created by the powerful to stay that way. Durring our nation's creation, what was the battle cry..."No taxation without representation."
If you have a problem with your taxes, that is between you and your representative...not the "poor".
Blaming others on how they vote is not a solution to your problems. The "poor" are not a monolithic group. Americans move into and out of poverty constantly.
Attempting to restict anyone's voting rights is as sound a democratic principle as resticting an American voting based on Color, Sex or even Sexual Orientation. Absolutley ridiculous.
Now did I say that taxation was invented by the poor? What I am saying is a president that runs around campaigning on raising taxes on others is wrong. My point about the doctor is that what your president was campaigning on was going after the very people who invested time and money to pull out the trenches, to become educated and yes to make good money. He also grouped small business owners right in with big bankers. These people are not the big bankers they are also people who had an idea, took a risk, started and run a business and yes, to hopefully make good money. The majority of people will never make it to be "big" business or a big banker but what you did do is supported a president that went after the doctor, the small business, the very level that you can accomplish or at least hope your kids accomplish. Yes it seems that $250K is a lot but when you support a family, pay taxes, have to keep money in the company to keep it running, pay your wages by the way. You did not really think about what he was doing or do not have the education to understand when you voted.. vote... vote for revenge against the big bankers. Obama and the democrats know this and as a result it is now harder to make a better life for yourselves. And he is going after more tax revenues.
For every action there are reactions. For every action there are intended and unintended consequences (side effects).
Never take a politician at face value and never vote for a politician who campaigns on raising taxes. The truth is that president is only interested in getting money from the American people. Obama will not be able to get enough from the rich alone, it will never be enough. There are not enough of them and being that there is actually more money in the middle class he will go after your money.
My other point is people should have money on the table and when they do they tend to think more because it effects them. People should vote only if they are able to understand the potential fallout of action.
The fact is, as much as it goes against what America is suppose to be about, it has happened in America, and it is very hypocritical. When it started, in 1790, only White male land owners could vote. The land ownership requirement wasn't eliminated until 1850. The poll tax was used in many states at one time. The 24th Amendment made it illegal in 1964. The USA has had a history of making it hard for even American citizens to vote.
It is not what America is suppose to be about. However, this nation has done it anyway. And you have realized what it is about. Elites wanted to keep the control for themselves. It wasn't about making sure the people had a say. Whenever I hear people say "felons shouldn't vote" or "the unemployed shouldn't vote" or "the poor shouldn't vote", I know that it has nothing to do with "fairness". It has alot to do with keeping political power within a certain segment of society. It is about the love of power and control.
Sure, I am interested in power as if I have any. What I am saying is if you are going to vote, at least try to make an educated vote. Don't listen to the propaganda that is designed to get your vote, think it through, look at their agenda, look at his past. And don't just look at one candidates past, look at both.
For years I would not vote because I was too caught up in the rat race to be able to keep up, understand what was going on so I refused to vote. I would have been a low information voter. I was not going to vote for cool, popularity, I was not listening to propaganda....
People who think only the elite should vote -- which is another way of saying only they should decide how a nation should be run are not only antagonistic to the notion of democracy but fail to learn the lessons of history. The elite being the sole decisions makers was the standard prior to the American experiment.
Property qualifications, while they existed in the American colonies/states, hardly limited the vote only to the elite, however defined. In most of the colonies/states, the standard had been carried over from Britain, where it had remained unchanged since the 14th century: 40 shillings (2 pounds sterling) per year in value of freehold or tenancy, or 5 pounds sterling sale value in urban property.
That excluded laborers, servants, apprentices and anyone else who had no property at all (and obviously, all women and slaves), but most farms in the early republic were worth at least 40s. The highest estimate usually given in sources is that "up to half" of white males may have been excluded, but in many rural counties the portion excluded was much smaller.
Obviously, excluding over half the population (once women and slaves are included) is a far cry from modern democratic ideas, but neither was it only "elites" by any normal definition: it included most yeoman farmers, shopkeepers, innkeepers, tradesmen, etc.
The fact is, as much as it goes against what America is suppose to be about, it has happened in America, and it is very hypocritical.
Demanding that people pay the way for others who refuse to work is against what America is suppose to be about. A political party that encourages welfare goes against the grain of this country. When someone is on welfare because they refuse to work, or because they think they are owed, for what ever reason, that is nothing to be proud of and we certainly should not fight or encourage it.
It is what it is. There are the working class poor who bust their butts trying to support their family, then there are those who have not pride and take from everyone. I've seen when someone who was working poor could not afford something but there was the welfare recipient who had it. There is something wrong seriously with that.
People on welfare don't care if the government increase taxes on other people, why would they???
The government gets an excessive amount of money and wastes huge amounts but unlike you and me who have to re-evaluate, cut cost, work more, we can't print money, the political class ignores the waste, pays cronies, gives money to other countries, lives very well then demands more money from me and you. There is something wrong with that.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
