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I know Obama is just in his second term, so it'd be more fair to compare Obama's administration to Bush's from 2000-2005 (when his approval ratings were up) but let's assume his general popularity will not change much. I know Bush's popularity rating went down and the anti-Bush rhetoric picked up after Afghanistan, but I'm curious, in a very unscientific way, which president do you feel has been the object of more vitriolic, blind or even justified hatred/disdain/criticism?
Of course, the assumption is Bush was hated mostly by liberals and democrats in general, but criticism of Obama seems more across the board. With Bush there wasn't that racist element with SOME of the negativity too. Do you think Obama is more hated too Bush?
There aren't really too many people who can answer this objectively. Most people have a personal political bias and their assessment of the "hatred" is interpreted through that filter rather than being based on empirical data.
In addition, you also need to be aware of a certain "recency" effect, meaning that a person's interpretation is biased by the relative temporal occurrence of events. In essence, whatever happens closer to the present is, necessarily, much more on people's minds.
To me, GWB was the first president who really felt the backlash of modern media and the intricate connectedness of individuals via social media. The result was harsh, cruel, and forbidding. Over the years, social media have evolved and the tone has certainly escalated. The criticism launched against Obama is accordingly rather vitriolic, more wide-spread, and more organized. I am not sure that it is any more substantial than the criticism faced by the Bush administration, but it is certainly much more visible and lacks any and all decorum of criticism of the past.
Without doubt, this is partly due to a more organized structure aimed at swaying political opinion through social media - something that was in its infancy during the Bush years. These days, everything goes and I shudder at the thought of this type of social evolution and the effect it will have on our future political process.
I think it really depends on who you talk to. I still haven't forgiven Bush for NCLB, as it had a direct negative impact on my life and I felt it would prove to be a disaster for education in the long run. I truly thought I would never be unhappier with another president. I was very excited to vote for Obama in '08, for a whole host of reasons but primarily because I wanted a president who looked like me. So it is odd that I find myself in 2013 disliking Obama far more than I ever did Bush. I really do think he has been an inept president, who distains and holds in contempt the nation he is supposed to lead.
IMO, the racist element is blown out of proportion by Obama's supporters. Just reading through the threads here on C-D, I've noticed that anytime someone criticizes Obama, there is a good chance that they will be accused of racism within the first couple of pages. I'm actually somewhat glad of this, though, since it's becoming a "boy who cried wolf" scenario. The accusations of racism in response to legitimate criticisms of this inept administration are starting to desensitize us to it, meaning that the rest of us can go on with the main discussion.
As for me, I disliked Bush about the same amount as I dislike Obama. I wasn't active on the P&C forums when Bush was in office, but if I had been I would have posted roughly the same criticisms of him as I do of Obama. Neither has any respect for the Constitution, both have involved our military in countries that we had no clear motivation to be in, and both have shown far more interest in being corporate shills than in leading our nation in a way that betters the lot of the average American. Obama is the new and improved Bush, Bush 2.0 if you will, which makes me chuckle when the same people who have displayed absolute hatred of Bush are more than willing to excuse Obama's behavior because "Bush did it."
Overall, I'd say Obama is a bit worse than Bush on domestic matters, due to his apparently overwhelming drive to destroy small business in the United States. On matters of domestic security, I rate them as equally despotic. On foreign relations, Bush is a bit worse than Obama due to his squandering of the diplomatic friendliness that the U.S. was shown after 9/11, but Obama is quickly catching up in my opinion. With another 3.5 years in office, he'll probably manage to tip the scales and rate lower than Bush on foreign relations in my book by the time it's all said and done. Especially if he continues with his drone strikes on foreign civilians.
I'd say we're coming toward the end of 16 years of bad leadership, overall. Hopefully the American voters will wise up before the next election and vote for a candidate that actually shows leadership qualities. Unfortunately, that will probably mean voting for a third party candidate, since the Democrats and Republicans have no desire to place a true leader in the White House.
IMO, the racist element is blown out of proportion by Obama's supporters. Just reading through the threads here on C-D, I've noticed that anytime someone criticizes Obama, there is a good chance that they will be accused of racism within the first couple of pages. I'm actually somewhat glad of this, though, since it's becoming a "boy who cried wolf" scenario. The accusations of racism in response to legitimate criticisms of this inept administration are starting to desensitize us to it, meaning that the rest of us can go on with the main discussion.
As for me, I disliked Bush about the same amount as I dislike Obama. I wasn't active on the P&C forums when Bush was in office, but if I had been I would have posted roughly the same criticisms of him as I do of Obama. Neither has any respect for the Constitution, both have involved our military in countries that we had no clear motivation to be in, and both have shown far more interest in being corporate shills than in leading our nation in a way that betters the lot of the average American. Obama is the new and improved Bush, Bush 2.0 if you will, which makes me chuckle when the same people who have displayed absolute hatred of Bush are more than willing to excuse Obama's behavior because "Bush did it."
Overall, I'd say Obama is a bit worse than Bush on domestic matters, due to his apparently overwhelming drive to destroy small business in the United States. On matters of domestic security, I rate them as equally despotic. On foreign relations, Bush is a bit worse than Obama due to his squandering of the diplomatic friendliness that the U.S. was shown after 9/11, but Obama is quickly catching up in my opinion. With another 3.5 years in office, he'll probably manage to tip the scales and rate lower than Bush on foreign relations in my book by the time it's all said and done. Especially if he continues with his drone strikes on foreign civilians.
I'd say we're coming toward the end of 16 years of bad leadership, overall. Hopefully the American voters will wise up before the next election and vote for a candidate that actually shows leadership qualities. Unfortunately, that will probably mean voting for a third party candidate, since the Democrats and Republicans have no desire to place a true leader in the White House.
I'd say Obama. There is no middle ground with him, you either are a adore or you despise the guy. I do believe Bush had more people who were moderate.
Yes, war is tragic. Yes, maybe we should not have gotten into Iraq.
But the biggest Tragedy we've seen in the few years is the lack of truth and promoting of division of Americans. The majority of the people did not and do not want Obamacare and it could bring this nation economically to it's knees.
IMO, the racist element is blown out of proportion by Obama's supporters. Just reading through the threads here on C-D, I've noticed that anytime someone criticizes Obama, there is a good chance that they will be accused of racism within the first couple of pages.
Jim - that is a problem that has plagued political discourse from the beginning - as soon as Obama became a viable option. The lines in the sand were drawn even before Obama won the election and, unfortunately, those who harbor racist feelings were, by default, grouped with all other political opponents.
The problem is manifold:
1.) Obama is the first non-white president of the USA. Therefore, one can expect there to be a certain discourse that involves race. It is a necessary process that advances our nation, our understanding of ourselves, and the integration of various demographics. It may not always be pretty, but overall, it is healthy.
I would also argue that it is much more beneficial to have this discussion out in the open rather than behind closed doors. Thus, you can encounter it on a daily basis.
2.) Our society is home to a number of racists. As we know, racism can take on various forms although the one that seems to be most readily on people's minds is white-on-black racism. Incidentally, it is this exact racism that predominantly comes into play with having Obama as president.
It's safe to assume that those people who despise blacks simply based on the color of their skin, have not voted for Obama. It is also safe to assume that those same people will be eager to criticize anything and everything Obama does.
Since it is basically impossible to discern a racist "criticism" from real criticism in all but the most blatant instances, there is no reasonable way for the average citizen to separate the two. Thus, by default, the underlying assumption ends up grouping racists with those who simply have criticism of Obama's policies. It's unfortunate, but that is how the human mind works.
3.) A fascinating side-effect of the tendency to group racist-driven criticism with opinion-driven criticism is a certain immunity FROM criticism. Thus, being able to discount just about any criticism as potentially racist allows ardent Obama supporters to disregard it entirely. In a way, it functions as a carte blanche or a "teflon suit." In that sense, those who are racist have basically managed to counteract their own objective.
4.) The cumulative effect has been quite evident: Thus, in the eyes of many, the GOP has been relegated to being the party of old, white, bitter men who are at the losing end of the new status quo. This may or may not be true, of course, but as can be readily seen, the GOP leadership has certainly acknowledged this public perception and has started to take appropriate public relations measures to "reinvent" itself in the public eye.
This, of course, is just one more benefit of having this discussion about racism in the US: It forces all of us to take a good, hard look in the mirror.
I think the difference is people felt bush cared about people. He just was not up to the job. Obama is not only not up to the job but he comes accross as that he doesnt like the people either. That includes his supporters. He only cares about his inner circle, exceipt the rev wright.
Jim - that is a problem that has plagued political discourse from the beginning - as soon as Obama became a viable option. The lines in the sand were drawn even before Obama won the election and, unfortunately, those who harbor racist feelings were, by default, grouped with all other political opponents.
The problem is manifold:
1.) Obama is the first non-white president of the USA. Therefore, one can expect there to be a certain discourse that involves race. It is a necessary process that advances our nation, our understanding of ourselves, and the integration of various demographics. It may not always be pretty, but overall, it is healthy.
I would also argue that it is much more beneficial to have this discussion out in the open rather than behind closed doors. Thus, you can encounter it on a daily basis.
2.) Our society is home to a number of racists. As we know, racism can take on various forms although the one that seems to be most readily on people's minds is white-on-black racism. Incidentally, it is this exact racism that predominantly comes into play with having Obama as president.
It's safe to assume that those people who despise blacks simply based on the color of their skin, have not voted for Obama. It is also safe to assume that those same people will be eager to criticize anything and everything Obama does.
Since it is basically impossible to discern a racist "criticism" from real criticism in all but the most blatant instances, there is no reasonable way for the average citizen to separate the two. Thus, by default, the underlying assumption ends up grouping racists with those who simply have criticism of Obama's policies. It's unfortunate, but that is how the human mind works.
3.) A fascinating side-effect of the tendency to group racist-driven criticism with opinion-driven criticism is a certain immunity FROM criticism. Thus, being able to discount just about any criticism as potentially racist allows ardent Obama supporters to disregard it entirely. In a way, it functions as a carte blanche or a "teflon suit." In that sense, those who are racist have basically managed to counteract their own objective.
4.) The cumulative effect has been quite evident: Thus, in the eyes of many, the GOP has been relegated to being the party of old, white, bitter men who are at the losing end of the new status quo. This may or may not be true, of course, but as can be readily seen, the GOP leadership has certainly acknowledged this public perception and has started to take appropriate public relations measures to "reinvent" itself in the public eye.
Well stated. The only thing that I feel you left out was that the Obama supporters who are using racism as their criteria for dismissing criticism are actually fomenting racist feelings in people that normally wouldn't be prone to them.
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