Don't forget, Obama wants the House To Raise the Debt Ceiling (Ron Paul, unemployed)

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by Threerun

The consequences to the US are how financial markets will behave with regards to action (or inaction) That prediction is not quite good at the moment.

Financial markets are irrelevant.

Financial markets do not drive a State's economy. Production and Trade is what drives an economy.

Financial markets are not an indicator of past, present or future economic performance.

The stock market loses 40.9% of its "value" over a period of 959 days.

Characterize the state of the economy during that time.

Answer:

Spoiler

GDP growth was averaging an astounding 12.5% per quarter = economics fail for you.

That actually happened September 1939 to April 1942

For those who believe stock markets matter, I have a few bridges you might be interested in buying.

Originally Posted by ambient

But we won't have enough for the people depending on Social Security, the veterans expecting benefits, etc.

Yes, you will.

Social Security taxes may only be used for Social Security. At at present Social Security does not collect enough money in monthly revenues to pay 100% of benefits, and must draw down from the Trust Fund.

In July, Social Security lost $3.1 Billion. In August, Social Security lost $8.5 Billion

Data for September has not been published, however historical data shows Social Security will lose between $8 Billion and $11 Billion each month through December.

If Social Security fails to collect a sufficient amount of money, it has a computer generated prioritization scheme, paying full benefits to those sole sources and those not subject to the taxation of benefits first, and then apportions the balance to the remaining recipients.

In plain English, those who receive a $3,500/monthly pension, plus $1,900/monthly Social Security benefits get their Social Security cut. Those whose only source is their $1,100 month Social Security check get 100% of benefits.

The VA has the scheme, although it operates differently, since the VA does not collect a direct tax to pay VA benefits.

Originally Posted by Threerun

Neither side can hardly claim any moral ground in this matter.

Why not?

If not now, when?

This whole thing with the Debt Ceiling is like having a warrant for your arrest, with private bounty hunters chasing you down.

If you want to stop running and hiding from the bounty hunters for the rest of your life, then you'll have to surrender.

Recessions are about the efficient use of Capital, and often that Capital is Labor (but not always).

It's a Global Economy. Get over it already. American workers are inefficient, because they cost too much and don't turn a profit. Your position geographically --- sammiched between two oceans -- is great for defense, but sucks for trade. If Proctor & Gamble wants to sell Crealm Toothpaste to the Turks, P&G is better off making it at their facility in Timisoara, Romania, and then shipping it by train through Moldova and Ukraine into Central Asia were the Turks are.

A Turk making $0.75/hour cannot buy Crealm Toothpaste made by an American whose starting wages at P&G are $22.50/hour, but the Turk can buy toothpaste from a Romanian whose wages are $2.65/hour.

That's your problem.....a problem the US government created, so don't blame anyone but yourself, for allowing your government to create a problem that is now causing you harm and grief.

Your condition is Surplus Labor...lots of it...because you cannot compete globally, and because technology is slowing eroding away jobs, and because your illegal quasi-national government is out of control.

Learn to deal with it....because this condition will persist for decades, at least through 2040, if not through 2060 and beyond.

You are a post-Industrialized State...your economy stopped growing at 5+% annually when you fully 100% completed Industrialization in the mid-1960s. GDP of 2.5%-3% is the best you'll ever do from this point forward....and that is not enough to pay for Social Security, or Medicare, or any type of universal health care.

The sooner you get hold of your debt problems, the better off you will be. There is no such thing as a "the best time to do it" because there will never be a best time to do it in the future, and if you're waiting for your UE Rate to drop to 5%, that is not going to happen before then end of this decade, if ever, and waiting will only make the problem worse.

Pursuant to the Constitution, budgets originate in the House, and that is the House of Representatives, not the White House. Obama needs to show some leadership, follow the Constitution, and stop being the problem.

Economically...

Mircea

[winkosmosis]

What Moody's said is equivalent to "Losing your job isn't directly resopnsible for you not being able to pay your rent. You have a choice between paying rent and buying food"

[Threerun]

Although I appreciate your point of view, financial markets are certainly relevant and can have an impact on our debt, which is generally the debate at the moment.

Our economic outlook in terms of GDP is another topic in of itself, and to which I find some of your statements regarding same not unfounded.

[Flamboyante]

Who is the one playing games now?

It has become clear -to me at least- that the GOP knows exactly what they are doing. They are using the shutdown as way to get the president to make concessions and this is certainly not the right way to do this. They think they are hurting Obama but this shutdown IS actually hurting people!

[HistorianDude]

What a whiner.

[treasurefinder]

Moodys??? Really? The same moodys that rated the bonds that were backed with sub-prime mortgages, and hence the market crash in 2008, that same moodys? lol, no thanks, I think I will take my chances with china and India saying we need to get our house in order, since they hold a large amount of our debt.

[HeyJude514]

Originally Posted by Flamboyante

Who is the one playing games now?

It has become clear -to me at least- that the GOP knows exactly what they are doing. They are using the shutdown as way to get the president to make concessions and this is certainly not the right way to do this. They think they are hurting Obama but this shutdown IS actually hurting people!

No life preserver for the GOP. Either they sink under the weight of the Tea Party, or they raise the debt ceiling and fund the government. They don't get to release one hostage while they up the ransom demands for the other.

[cw30000]

The whole thing is just a show. Both Democrats and Republicans want to show you that they are on your side and blame the other for the problem.

If it is a shutdown, then shut it down.

There is a reason why there is a debt ceiling. If it get raise every time it reached, then it has no meaning. They might as well just remove it so we don't have to see this shxx every September/October.

[Finn_Jarber]

Originally Posted by lycos679

Good job Congress!

Yes, great job They still enjoy the support of 5% of Americans.

[Globe199]

Originally Posted by cw30000

They might as well just remove it so we don't have to see this shxx every September/October.

The Republicans would never agree to this because then they wouldn't be able to fight over it. They'd have to come up with something else to b**ch about.