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Yeah, that just looks ridiculous on its face. Getting tired of people saying "HATE LIAR OBAMA."
You voted him in. He's the best liar that was available. At least his lies were consistent.
They all lie. That's what they do. That's what all politicians do. People seem to think that it is a new thing. That's what makes me crack up. "Oh, this one is telling the truth." OK. Enjoy your unwillingness to accept that they all lie.
Anyone that thinks a politician tells the truth all the time is an idiot. Go back 40 years. No president has ever told the whole truth.
I don't know if you're an Obama supporter. The thing is, his most devoted lapdogs can't to this day admit he lied, and not just about obamacare. His less devoted lapdogs who admit he lied now feel a duty to excuse it with 'They All Lie' and 'The Other Guy Told Worse Lies.'
The issue I have with Obama, as one who did get suckered, we knew we weren't getting a 60's Bobby Kennedy type democrat, but we really did believe there might be something behind the "Hope/Change" mantra. Not only was there no "Change", Obama has turned out to be as republican as Nixon, McConnell or any of the current FOX/Rush party. While the Obamacare stuff is getting all the press, its the other things that aren't getting press that make him so reprehensible. The anti-american trade agreements. Not following through on promises made to the middle class, forgetting about all the environmental issue he spoke of pre-election~ One lie and broken promise after another. The Revenge of Cheney Part III.
The reason Obama is failing now is not because of repub obstructionism, everybody expects them to be a factor, it because his core is leaving him en masse. He squandered a golden opportunity to put the final nail in the coffin of nu-feudalist republicanism, and instead of letting the hammer dropped, he ran to them with his tail between his legs, so now they live on to possibly win another election another day.
He ran ZERO risk by alienating you …… what were you going to do about it? Vote Republican?
The Left made the same errors with Obama that the Right made with Bush ….. they failed to speak up early enough and loud enough. Covering and staying silent on the things you (or I) feel important is a lose/lose proposition. I read about the issues and I know what my CongressCritters are doing - they hear from me on a very regular basis.
1. He didn't lie us into a war and it is disingenous to keep saying that. Everybody thought there were WMD's and the Dems were chomping at the bit as much as the Repubs to invade Iraq.
Go back and read history instead of rewriting it. The administration lied to Congress and lied to the American people about WMDs and insinuated that Saddam was involved in 9/11 to convince a country still reeling from that attack that we had to invade a sovereign nation. No Democrats were "chomping at the bit" to invade Iraq. Most likely no Republicans were, either, until Bush/Cheney started ramping up the phony rhetoric. The country was focused on finding those responsible for 9/11, which Iraq and Hussein were not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by juneaubound
3. Trying to deflect away from Obama's lies by pointing to the fact that other presidents lie as well, is a fools' game. We're not talking about Bush or Clinton of freakin' Kennedy. We're talking about THESE lies from THIS president.
No, the topic of this thread is that no president ever lied before Obama. It would be hard to discuss that if we couldn't bring other presidents in for comparison, wouldn't it?
He ran ZERO risk by alienating you …… what were you going to do about it? Vote Republican?
The Left made the same errors with Obama that the Right made with Bush ….. they failed to speak up early enough and loud enough. Covering and staying silent on the things you (or I) feel important is a lose/lose proposition. I read about the issues and I know what my CongressCritters are doing - they hear from me on a very regular basis.
And, since you donate more than the lobbyists of your pols favorite corporate entities, they are going to listen to you, first? You are delusional if you think your email or vote is going to make any difference at all.
A vote for either of the one-party parties is throwing your vote away
I don't think they're naive. It's just the latest angle they're using for their own political purposes. Personally, I don't feel that Obama deserves so much condemnation for "the lie" when the fact of the matter is that it was mostly the insurance companies choice to cancel policies. The government didn't make them cancel policies that were grandfathered in and it didn't make them create new policies that they knew did not comply with the new rules and would have to be cancelled. I find it interesting that the insurance companies are shouldering almost none of the blame when they are the ones manipulating the system. The government, for the most part, didn't prevent people from keeping their insurance, it was the insurance companies themselves who chose to cancel policies and mislead people. Why doesn't anyone blame THEM?
I guess you have been a cave for the last several months with only messages from Obama's organization as the only communication available to you. Even the New York Times & Washington Post have debunked the "It's the Insurance companies fault" over the Grandfathering rules. The NYT even published the memos from the Obama Administration from 2010 that admitted that the new "grandfather rule" was a crock. Insurance companies were forced to follow the law ….. until Obama unilaterally issued a Decree for them to ignore the Law.
Obama and his minions will ramp up as much "blame the Insurance companies" as they can …… but it won't work, as more and more people lose their coverage. About 85-87% of the people had insurance before ObamaCare ….. what will the figures be this spring and later in the fall when the next hammer falls on Large Employers? Not pretty.
Go back and read history instead of rewriting it. The administration lied to Congress and lied to the American people about WMD and insinuated that Saddam was involved in 9/11 to convince a country still reeling from that attack that we had to invade a sovereign nation. No Democrats were "chomping at the bit" to invade Iraq. Most likely no Republicans were, either, before Bush/Cheney started ramping up the rhetoric. The country was focused on finding those responsible for 9/11, which Iraq and Hussein were not.
hmm... a bold faced lie from you
bush did not lie about wmd...everyone to include the democrats (especially democrats on the house/senate INTELLEGENCE committees were saying so...long before bush said a word
Quote:
"As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi (Democrat, California)
Statement on US Led Military Strike Against Iraq
December 16, 1999
"I come to this debate, Mr. Speaker, as one at the end of 10 years in office on the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, where stopping the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction was one of my top priorities. I applaud the President on focusing on this issue and on taking the lead to disarm Saddam Hussein. ... Others have talked about this threat that is posed by Saddam Hussein. Yes, he has chemical weapons, he has biological weapons, he is trying to get nuclear weapons."
Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi (Democrat, California)
Addressing the US House of Representatives
October 10, 2002
Congressional Record, p. H7777
"We stopped the fighting [in 1991] on an agreement that Iraq would take steps to assure the world that it would not engage in further aggression and that it would destroy its weapons of mass destruction. It has refused to take those steps. That refusal constitutes a breach of the armistice which renders it void and justifies resumption of the armed conflict."
Senator Harry Reid (Democrat, Nevada)
Addressing the US Senate
October 9, 2002
Congressional Record, p. S10145
"There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein's regime is a serious danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed.
We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
Senator Edward Kennedy (Democrat, Massachusetts)
Speech at Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies
September 27, 2002
"As a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, I firmly believe that the issue of Iraq is not about politics. It's about national security. We know that for at least 20 years, Saddam Hussein has obsessively sought weapons of mass destruction through every means available. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons today. He has used them in the past, and he is doing everything he can to build more. Each day he inches closer to his longtime goal of nuclear capability -- a capability that could be less than a year away.
The path of confronting Saddam is full of hazards. But the path of inaction is far more dangerous. This week, a week where we remember the sacrifice of thousands of innocent Americans made on 9-11, the choice could not be starker. Had we known that such attacks were imminent, we surely would have used every means at our disposal to prevent them and take out the plotters. We cannot wait for such a terrible event -- or, if weapons of mass destruction are used, one far worse -- to address the clear and present danger posed by Saddam Hussein's Iraq."
Senator John Edwards (Democrat, North Carolina)
US Senate floor statement: "Iraqi Dictator Must Go"
September 12, 2002
bush did not say that Iraq was involved in 9/11...wha he did say was the TRUTH, that Iraq was sponsoring and training terrorists LIKE the ones who committed 9/11
Quote:
US State Department
November 4, 1998
Bin Laden, Atef Indicted in U.S. Federal Court for African Bombings
New York -- Usama bin Laden and Muhammad Atef were indicted November 4 in Manhattan federal court for the August 7 bombings of the US embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and for conspiring to kill Americans outside the United States.
Bin Laden's "al Qaeda" organization functioned both on its own and through other terrorist organizations, including the Al Jihad group based in Egypt, the Islamic Group also known as el Gamaa Islamia led at one time by Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman, and a number of other jihad groups in countries such as Sudan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and Somalia.
Bin Laden, the US Attorney charged, engaged in business transactions on behalf of Al Qaeda, including purchasing warehouses for storage of explosives, transporting weapons, and establishing a series of companies in Sudan to provide income to al Qaeda and as a cover for the procurement of explosives, weapons, and chemicals, and for the travel of operatives.
According to the indictment, bin Laden and al Qaeda forged alliances with the National Islamic Front in Sudan and with representatives of the Government of Iran and its associated terrorist group Hezballah with the goal of working together against their common enemies in the West, particularly the United States.
"In addition, al Qaeda reached an understanding with the Government of Iraq that al Qaeda would not work against that government and that on particular projects, specifically including weapons development, al Qaeda would work cooperatively with the Government of Iraq," the indictment said.
Beginning in 1992, bin Laden allegedly issued through his "fatwah" committees a series of escalating "fatwahs" against the United States, certain military personnel, and, eventually in February 1998, a "fatwah" stating that Muslims should kill Americans -- including civilians -- anywhere in the world they can be found.
hmmm even the Clinton state dept stated that Iraq was working with alq
but instead you would rather continue the lies of the left
Wingnuts compare trying to reform healthcare with daily lies about a threat from Saddam Hussein that cost over 4000 American lives, 10 times that many wounded, both physically and mentally, and over 100,000 innocent civilians killed. The stark contrast in what outrages these two groups does the best job in exposing the pathology of the American Wingnut.
What Pres. Obama should have done from the very onset is push his agenda through without an iota of concern whether or not the Teabaggers, wingnuts and racists in the GOP voting bloc liked it or not. They were going to hate him regardless.
He should have been more like Bush, but he stayed in the middle of the road and got ran over by both parties. In the end, he has done little to please either political party.
At least Bush retained a messianic zeal with his true believers, those cheerleaders for the Iraq war.
Given the fact the FDA has killed tens of thousands since the passage of the Kefauver Amendment we have to figure Obamacare will kill many times more than 4000 fellow Americans.
Yeah, that just looks ridiculous on its face. Getting tired of people saying "HATE LIAR OBAMA."
You voted him in. He's the best liar that was available. At least his lies were consistent.
They all lie. That's what they do. That's what all politicians do. People seem to think that it is a new thing. That's what makes me crack up. "Oh, this one is telling the truth." OK. Enjoy your unwillingness to accept that they all lie.
Anyone that thinks a politician tells the truth all the time is an idiot. Go back 40 years. No president has ever told the whole truth.
I think this is a very unsophisticated post for a number of reasons.
Of course all politicians lie.
But do you think they are all equally dishonest?
Because some politicians lie, does that mean we cannot criticize any politician for lying?
Do you think all lies are the same?
Should we accept lies from politicians? If we did what would that do to government?
When have you honestly ever heard anyone insist that politicians in general do not lie? Or humans in general for that matter? The only politicians in my lifetime where I have heard adults insist that a specific politician doesn't lie is Obama and Ron Paul. This is hilarious, since Obama lies non-stop even about his own mother's death.
We need to hold all politicians accountable for their lies, not ignore the lies or excuse them away.
How does it help America when each party excuses its own politician's lies? We just get more lying, because the politicians know their supporters truly don't care about honesty, unless the lies are coming from the other party. Both parties are enabling corrupt, inefficient, and deceitful government.
In regards to Obama being consistent, you are not well informed. For gay marriage when he represents a liberal district in Chicago that favors it, then immediately opposes gay marriage when he represents an entire state that opposes it, then switches back in favor to it at precisely the moment when the country's majority turns in favor of it. In 2008 primaries, ran conflicting ads on coal, depending on whether it was a coal state. Says military action without congress is illegal unless it is an immediate threat - then says it is legal when he needs to bomb Libya. Says that transparency is dear to his heart, breaks transparency promises instantly including on his very first bill. Says that one of the reasons he was running for president was to stop special access for donors -- whoops, $500K gets you face time. Promised public campaign financing, switched the moment he realized he could out raise McCain. Etc....ad nauseum...
The problem is that Obama's campaign was built on emotion. The history he made, him walking down among us from huge Greek Mt. Olympus pillars, the chanting mantras, the fainting....emotion clouds logic. Anyone that criticized him in 2009 for breaking a promise, lying, etc...was attacked by his defenders. Obama had no reason to be honest or fulfill promises - accountability didn't matter. Positions of power corrupts - that is why we have checks and balances... The greatest check and balance are the voters standing up and demanding accountability. Obama would have been a highly successful president, had his followers made him accountable to things that he could fulfill himself. They didn't and he has failed.
This country would be much better if people in both parties were more loyal to honesty and accountability than to their party members that they have admire deeply.
P.S. I have literally seen high school teachers say that Obama has never made a mistake or lied to students.
The only folks still supporting Obama are those that still have their insurance......Just wait til next year when the employer mandate is on......when your kids and wife are not covered anymore.....
All politicians lie. But this was the first time a lie ever affected millions of US citizens on such personal levels........Clinton lying about his affair always was on TV, far away. Nixon's on TV far away.......Bush's (if you can call it that, since everyone had the same intel on Saddam) only effected military families. Thus the average American was not touched....it stayed on TV.
But his insurance lie is massive.....this didn't stay on the TV. It came to the door steps of millions of Americans!! These people got letters. This lie reached out and touched them. This is personal......kids going thru cancer treatments having to stop. Premiums going up and the new care substandard. This is just evil.
That dude lied so that his precious legacy would get passed. We aint seen nothin' yet.....2014 is coming.
Last edited by citizenkane2; 12-14-2013 at 11:12 AM..
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