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I don't have all the answers, believe me! "Throwing money" no, but figuring out where to best invest it, yes. I think that's where the effort should go.
I blame 2 primary issues with our public education system.
1. Parents expecting the school to do it all.
2. Tenure for teachers. Once tenure is achieved an act of god and a presidential order can not remove a bad teacher from their job.
Too many teachers are hired based less on qualifications and more on knowing someone on the school board or within the union.
I'll pick on where valuable money is often wasted. Sports programs that benefit relatively very few students.
Many coaches are often teachers. That sounds good and looks good on paper. In reality how many of those coaches are good teachers? My Biology teacher was also the head coach of the football team. Our team was good too. We were always at the top of our conference.
My class consisted of writing word for word what was in the text book. He would give us 3 pages to write per class. Sometimes more if there were pictures. Then he would leave the room. He would be back at the end of class to collect the papers. No tests were ever given. Now ask me what I learned. Drivers ed was the assistant football coach. Yeah not much of a class.
Sex Ed was the Basketball coach. We spent more time talking about what Basketball cards were the best to collect. LOL Yep I bought some of them and he was right. They are now worth a lot more than I paid back then. He reasoned and rightly so that by the time you were in 10th grade you knew all about the birds and the bees. Guess what the jocks got to leave class to go work out. Public school at its finest and ours Wyoming Area is ranked pretty high in the area.
Now is this how our tax dollars should be spent?
I blame 2 primary issues with our public education system.
1. Parents expecting the school to do it all.
I agree to that in the extent that teachers/schools/school boards frequently fend off parents by insisting that *they're* the experts and *they* know what they are doing.
Quote:
2. Tenure for teachers. Once tenure is achieved an act of god and a presidential order can not remove a bad teacher from their job.
Absolutely a HUGE problem. Lock-step salary raises are also a significant problem. Salaries aren't dictated by efficacy, they're dictated by time at job. A tenured teacher could TOTALLY SUCK and still get all the union-mandated lock-step raises.
Please don't misunderstand; I am not opposed to school choice. I am opposed to the widely-held belief that school choice somehow evens the playing field. It does not, and in some ways it even worsens the stratification. Vouchers are an illusion that allow us to think that we're providing a solution to inequalities in educational access, while creating new problems in the process.
Unless of course you happen to be one of those kids stuck in failing schools and no where to go because you cant afford to send your children to private school.
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent
I strongly disagree. Student transportation is not a small issue; it is an enormous issue.
Nonsense, when my son started going to a different school other than the local public one, getting my kid to the school was a big issue for me until the school looked at me and said its taken care of because other kids go to other schools. Even if I had to take my son to school daily, I would, just like I did when I lived in Pittsburgh and no bussing existsed.
I agree to that in the extent that teachers/schools/school boards frequently fend off parents by insisting that *they're* the experts and *they* know what they are doing. Absolutely a HUGE problem. Lock-step salary raises are also a significant problem. Salaries aren't dictated by efficacy, they're dictated by time at job. A tenured teacher could TOTALLY SUCK and still get all the union-mandated lock-step raises.
Very true. There is very little accountability for poor performing teachers. I just visited with a former teacher of mine. I credit him for being the most influential teacher in my life. I was giving him a book I had published and we sat down for a while and discussed school in my day and today. He is disgusted with the direction public schools have taken and in the teachers unions. He retired a few years ago and only misses teaching the kids.
we talked about how parents no longer are involved and how they expect Teachers to do it all and not give homework assignments.
We talked about bad teachers and his frustration with having to deal with lazy teachers. More to the point deal with kids those teachers had taught before him.
Unless of course you happen to be one of those kids stuck in failing schools and no where to go because you cant afford to send your children to private school.
Nonsense, when my son started going to a different school other than the local public one, getting my kid to the school was a big issue for me until the school looked at me and said its taken care of because other kids go to other schools. Even if I had to take my son to school daily, I would, just like I did when I lived in Pittsburgh and no bussing existsed.
Here's the dirty little secret: your state voucher money isn't going to cover tuition for a decent private school, and chances are that there's no space for your kid anyway.
You are very fortunate that you had the wherewithal to provide daily transportation for your child. Impoverished families, those whose kids are stuck in failing schools, likely don't have the same option, which returns us to my previous point: vouchers are an illusion that allow us to think that we're providing a solution to inequalities in educational access, while creating new problems in the process.
Here's the dirty little secret: your state voucher money isn't going to cover tuition for a decent private school, and chances are that there's no space for your kid anyway.
New York spends $19K per student, and with 30 kids in a class, thats close to $600K per classroom.
Thats more money than is spent on students going to most Colleges, which everyone whines about is too expensive.
If you dont think a private school can educate students for less, then you are part of the problem..
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent
You are very fortunate that you had the wherewithal to provide daily transportation for your child. Impoverished families, those whose kids are stuck in failing schools, likely don't have the same option, which returns us to my previous point: vouchers are an illusion that allow us to think that we're providing a solution to inequalities in educational access, while creating new problems in the process.
So its ok for impoverished individuals to be forced to send their kids to failing schools, but somehow daily transportation, is an issue? How does keeping children in failing schools produce a better result than transporting them to better schools?
Your position makes no sense, screw thoe who arent fortunate enough to send their kids to better schools and are stuck living in poverty strickened neighborhoods, but whine because, they cant transport them to the next town.
New York spends $19K per student, and with 30 kids in a class, thats close to $600K per classroom.
Thats more money than is spent on students going to most Colleges, which everyone whines about is too expensive.
If you dont think a private school can educate students for less, then you are part of the problem..
The state voucher money provided for students in the county south of me is between $4-5k per year, which is about two-thirds of the money allotted for a public school student in the public district last time I checked. Tuition at the k-8 Catholic school down the street from me is about $7k. Tuition for the Catholic high schools on this end of town ranges between $10-$12k. Secular private schools are even more expensive. In my area, that's the reality of the situation as it stands today. Is it different elsewhere? Maybe, but I'd like to see numbers.
I blame 2 primary issues with our public education system.
1. Parents expecting the school to do it all.
2. Tenure for teachers. Once tenure is achieved an act of god and a presidential order can not remove a bad teacher from their job.
Too many teachers are hired based less on qualifications and more on knowing someone on the school board or within the union.
I'll pick on where valuable money is often wasted. Sports programs that benefit relatively very few students.
Many coaches are often teachers. That sounds good and looks good on paper. In reality how many of those coaches are good teachers? My Biology teacher was also the head coach of the football team. Our team was good too. We were always at the top of our conference.
My class consisted of writing word for word what was in the text book. He would give us 3 pages to write per class. Sometimes more if there were pictures. Then he would leave the room. He would be back at the end of class to collect the papers. No tests were ever given. Now ask me what I learned. Drivers ed was the assistant football coach. Yeah not much of a class.
Sex Ed was the Basketball coach. We spent more time talking about what Basketball cards were the best to collect. LOL Yep I bought some of them and he was right. They are now worth a lot more than I paid back then. He reasoned and rightly so that by the time you were in 10th grade you knew all about the birds and the bees. Guess what the jocks got to leave class to go work out. Public school at its finest and ours Wyoming Area is ranked pretty high in the area.
Now is this how our tax dollars should be spent?
I went to high school in Pennsylvania, too, in Joe Namath's school district. That should tell you the emphasis on sports, particularly football. I'm familiar with such stories.
One of the FEW things that NCLB did right was up the number of "highly qualified" teachers. Highly Qualified Teachers
In the district where I now live, some of the coaches aren't even teachers. That's probably as it should be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent
Here's the dirty little secret: your state voucher money isn't going to cover tuition for a decent private school, and chances are that there's no space for your kid anyway.
You are very fortunate that you had the wherewithal to provide daily transportation for your child. Impoverished families, those whose kids are stuck in failing schools, likely don't have the same option, which returns us to my previous point: vouchers are an illusion that allow us to think that we're providing a solution to inequalities in educational access, while creating new problems in the process.
The state voucher money provided for students in the county south of me is between $4-5k per year, which is about two-thirds of the money allotted for a public school student in the public district. last time I checked. Tuition at the k-8 Catholic school down the street from me is about $7k. Tuition for the Catholic high schools on this end of town is ranges between $10-$12k. Secular private schools are even more expensive. That's the reality of the situation as it stands today.
Then I'd argue the state voucher program doesnt pay enough.. Give $10K if thats whats needed to provide adaquate education, it still saves the taxpayers 1/2 of what they currentlypay..
You're argument is similar to arguing that Section 8 doesnt pay enough for housing, so we should abandon the program, or food stamps doesnt cover 100% of food costs for everyone with children, so we should just abandon these programs..
Hes from the projects, (literally), he went to a charter school, which focused on technology. Now he's in College, under a federal grant where when he graduates, he will have a job working with forensic computer data for the FBI. Had charter schools not been available to him, he would have been another drug dealing crackhead who might have died from a gang war..
I've never heard of a student going to a public education system, offered jobs prior to even entering college with high profile employers.
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