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Didn't Arizona also try to pass a law stating that an employer could fire an employee for using birth control if it went against their religion? Not a religious organization but private employers. Not PAYING for birth control, but simply learning about it. Where are your CHILDREN Mrs. Smith? Are you using evil birth control? This one died a very rapid death.
The courts will, as outlined in the bill. Seriously did any of you even try to read it?
Every case would be reviewed by the courts, if it's something like '' no gays allowed '' that would be discrimination and the courts would deny the claim. If it's something like the wedding cake for a Gay wedding/Ceremony or wanting to serve someone on the Sabbath (something that is forbidden in say Judaism) it would be reviewed and found to be within that businesses religious rights.
First off, in most of Arizona it is currently perfectly legal to put a "No Gays Allowed" sign in front of your business and to accordingly deny service to gay people. Certain cities in Arizona outlaw this though.
This bill would affect those cities. This bill allows religious belief to be a defense to anti-discrimination claims. The bill allows for discrimination if the discrimination is "motivated by a religious belief" and the "religious belief is sincerely held." If my religious belief is that gays are worthy of death in the eyes of God and shouldn't be allowed to exist in society, then this bill lets me ban gays from accessing my business.
And this doesn't just affect the gays. If my religious belief is that God doesn't want the races to mix, then this bill would let me have a "Whites Only" business.
Conservatives should hate this bill too. It puts the government - via government courts - in the position of determining if a person's belief is in fact a "sincerely held religious belief" or not. The bill is an intrusion of government into religion.
Religious Rights are protected under the Constitution last time I checked.
If a business says '' no Gays allowed '' that would be discrimination from the business. If a Gay couple says '' bake me a cake for my Gay wedding/Ceremony, I don't care if it violates your religion, do it or I'll sue you ' ' that would be discrimination by the Gay couple.
Which religion has as one of its teachings that believers should refuse business with homosexuals? Not Christianity. So which religion has its teachings violated by baking a wedding cake for a gay wedding?
You may claim a religious reason for not having gay sex yourself, citing Leviticus or Paul's writings, but there's nothing in Christ's teachings calling for believers to not do business with homosexuals.
Leviticus does call for perpetrators of particular abominations to be cut off from the people, lest the land be punished by God. One such abomination that merits this reaction is having sex with your wife when she's having her period.* Should hotel staff check in on their guest couples to make sure this isn't going on?
I did not address the pants or the tattoos because those were ridiculous red herring fallacies. Furthermore you are only drawing it from the Old Testament and out of context at that, if you want it to explained ask in the Religious section, this is not the right forum or thread for religion. Those things are not issues nor do they violate God's law.
But more importantly, no Tattoo or pants wearing person has tried to violate the Religious Rights of others and close their business down like gay people have. Until one of them does then you can use that argument, it's just a red herring fallacy now.
I'm not a bible expert, but Leviticus, which is used against gays is also in the old testament.
However NONE of that really matters. No one religion should be able to make laws based on their religion.
What's next? Jewish deli's refusing to serve non Jews?
I did not address the pants or the tattoos because those were ridiculous red herring fallacies. Furthermore you are only drawing it from the Old Testament and out of context
Maybe you should read the CD Religion threads. All the fundies who believe women are lesser beings and should be staying in the home (where, I've learned, they're "Godly" if they're good decorators) are high-fiving each other.
They're a riot.
Right up until they start the "homosexuals are perverts" talk. At that point it's revealed what's in the dark hearts of the people who want to deny service to someone then hide behind the Bible to justify their hate.
Last edited by DewDropInn; 02-23-2014 at 06:30 PM..
Which religion has as one of its teachings that believers should refuse business with homosexuals? Not Christianity. So which religion has its teachings violated by baking a wedding cake for a gay wedding?
You may claim a religious reason for not having gay sex yourself, citing Leviticus or Paul's writings, but there's nothing in Christ's teachings calling for believers to not do business with homosexuals.
Leviticus does call for perpetrators of particular abominations to be cut off from the people, lest the land be punished by God. One such abomination that merits this reaction is having sex with your wife when she's having her period.* Should hotel staff check in on their guest couples to make sure this isn't going on?
*Leviticus 18:18, with the punishment at 18:25
Hotels should also check for marriage licenses before renting rooms to couples. Otherwise, they're participation in a mortal sin, and we can't have that!
Originally Posted by West Coast Republican I did not address the pants or the tattoos because those were ridiculous red herring fallacies. Furthermore you are only drawing it from the Old Testament and out of context at that, if you want it to explained ask in the Religious section, this is not the right forum or thread for religion. Those things are not issues nor do they violate God's law.
But more importantly, no Tattoo or pants wearing person has tried to violate the Religious Rights of others and close their business down like gay people have. Until one of them does then you can use that argument, it's just a red herring fallacy now.
How is it a red herring? These things are forbidden in the bible. You know, the bible everyone is hiding behind? All of a sudden, these things don't count?
I'm not a bible expert, but Leviticus, which is used against gays is also in the old testament.
However NONE of that really matters. No one religion should be able to make laws based on their religion.
What's next? Jewish deli's refusing to serve non Jthe iews?
Yes it's forbidden in leviticus, it's also forbidden in the new testament as well, where it is listed along with Adultery, Idolatry, and the Sexually Immoral (Pedophilia, incest, bestiality... All kinds of really nasty stuff).
Also your example regarding Jewish Deli's doesn't work becauseJews are not forbidden from serving Gentiles. I'm a former Jew, I know my stuff. Not to mention that the Arizona bill would not allow that, again each case has to be reviewed by a court, they cannot allow a business to outright discriminate, not even on Religious grounds.
They can however choose to not serve food at a Christian Wedding, that would be well within that Deli's Religious Rights because it's a specific request which again would be reviewed by the courts. (Jews do serve at Christian weddings too BTW, as long as it's not inside a church, at least for Orthodoxy).
My personal view is that of most Christians. I see homosexuality as a sin, just like I see Adultery as a sin. I don't hate or judge gays, I know many gay people and some of them are really cool people, doesn't mean that I have to agree with their particular lifestyle though. I say '' live and let live' '. I do dislike how much it's being thrown around all the time now, especially in the media, it's like they want to celebrate it. Who cares? We don't want to see or hear about it all the time. I'm straight, does anyone care? No didn't think so. I don't run around flaunting my sexuality to everybody.
I also dislike how gay activsts are attacking religious rights of others. Learn to respect religious people and they might respect you back, something they should be doing to begin with because God wants us to love everyone, including those who practice the gay lifestyle.
In the case of gay Marriage, I believe marriage should just be dropped from the legal system all together. Get the Government out of it entirely. Let churches, Synagogues etc... Use the word Marriage in the private, religious, and social context of the word. All people, including straightand gay , should just be termed as secular contracts by the Government. Let Marriage be private. That way the debate would be over. Gay people would have equality under the law and the word Marriage is still protected.
Mr. Sulu should mind his own business and let Arizona do the right thing with this bill and pass it. It is a bill that needs to be implimented as soon as possible. According to the comments, nobody agrees with him on his threat to call for a boycott of Arizona and I don't either. He needs to realize that nobody is forbidding homosexuals from owning and operating their own floral shops, bakeries, photography studios, catering businesses, restaurants, clothing stores, churches, etc. in Arizona.
Right. In what world does it make sense to turn fellow Americans way from businesses and other services? It's just like what they used to do in the 50s - turn away black people for being black.
Same problem, different culture in today's world. It makes me sick that anyone could think this is possibly a good idea.
Discrimination is rearing it's ugly ahead again and while I don't particularly agree with George Takei's words, I do understand his position.
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