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If there is no service offered, they can't talk about lousy service. And if everyone else is getting great photos and excellent service, is anyone going to worry about the one person who says he never got any service?
I turned down many jobs in my other business. We were always swamped. We were never without work.
I believe in giving great service....and we do.
However, at times I think it doesn't matter what is being said as long as your name is out there.
People don't always listen...they just remember the name.
It's long since America became a weird place. Regardless of my stand on gay rights, a photographer can refuse service to whoever they choose. Just hire another photographer! I am sure many would want that business!
People always make preposterous analogies: It's absolutely not like discrimination against black people! The thing against blacks was legislated and practiced by all bus companies. Here is an individual who has his preferences. How can you compare between the two? There are many gay photographers. Does it mean I cannot select a straight guy if I prefer so?
Americans are bored! Since we don't have real existential problems like so many countries on the globe, we focus on pure nonsense!
Any business that is incorporated to do business with the public agrees to abide by the laws of the state. End of discussion. Any business that signs any piece of paper agreeing to abide by the state, county or city's laws must abide by those laws.
Don't want to do business with people you hate? Do your business under the table, or find a state, county or city where they don't care about equal rights. Simple. Now you have all the personal freedom you want.
And there are NO false analogies here. Equal rights are equal rights, whether you want to admit it or not. Discrimination against any person on the basis of race, religion, gender or sexual orientation is still discrimination. I know the anti-gay army is desperate to hide this simple fact, but it's true nevertheless.
This whole thing has spiral out of control for the sake of Social Justice. This should of never made to the Supreme Court and is a trivial matter on a small scale. The business in question probably did not feel comfortable to take care of this client and turned it down. Or he did not need the work and turned it down.
I have turned business down in the past because I was not a fit for my business or my personal standards. It could range from profitability, current high work load to just do feel comfortable with the client.
This ultra high sensitively over gay people is way to far. This again is to criminalize any who doesn't not whole heartily support the gay movement. What a shame they have to feel they should be a protected class. Rather than equal rights for all American Citizens!
Americans are bored! Since we don't have real existential problems like so many countries on the globe, we focus on pure nonsense!
True.
I know for a fact that there are people who make it their mission to find someone or something to sue, it's an obsessive behavior hiding behind "justice". We see it a lot these days when people run to the media for ever little thing, usually spinning and exaggerating whatever to make themselves look like a victim (or their child, or their dog, etc). I used to think it was about money, then I thought it was about attention, but now I think it is because so many are bored that their brains just melt. That's my way of saying "stupid".
There really isn't a lot of paperwork involved in incorporating, as far as I know, and I don't think there is anything that one "signs stating they will abide by the laws of the state." I think the OP has made this up.
In my state, when we registered as an LLC, we only had to provide the business name, address, etc, and send our $50. It was good for five years. We got a certificate with the state's seal embossed, and that was about it. We didn't sign anything that had anything to do with abiding by the law.
In any case, my solution to this problem is as simple as, don't provide a quote. Don't promise anything. Do nothing. Don't tell them you will or won't do the job.
Wherever in the world you do business, you must abide by applicable law. That includes anti-discrimination laws. If you violate them, then you must be prepared to face the legal consequences of your violation. It's that simple. If you refused 50 gay couples service, but never refused a straight couple, then it would be reasonable for a jury to infer that you refused the gay couples because of their sexuality in violation of anti-discrimination laws (if they exist in your State).
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamencoFreak
Unfortunately, if you are devout in your beliefs, and feel you are violating God's Word to participate in what is clearly sin, it isn't that easy. Like I said, when they call or walk in your door, smile, be polite, and don't give them a quote. Don't even hint at a price. Tell them you will have to get back to them. Then, don't.
See above. Be prepared to pay for violating anti-discrimination laws if your purpose for refusing service is to engage in prohibited discrimination.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Driller1
I think you are right about incorporating......and even if it is true a business could incorporate in other places.
Businesses must abide by the laws of the places in which they do business. It does not matter where they incorporate (except for internal corporate affairs, which are beyond the scope of this discussion).
Quote:
Originally Posted by oberon_1
It's long since America became a weird place. Regardless of my stand on gay rights, a photographer can refuse service to whoever they choose. Just hire another photographer! I am sure many would want that business!
People always make preposterous analogies: It's absolutely not like discrimination against black people! The thing against blacks was legislated and practiced by all bus companies. Here is an individual who has his preferences. How can you compare between the two? There are many gay photographers. Does it mean I cannot select a straight guy if I prefer so?
Americans are bored! Since we don't have real existential problems like so many countries on the globe, we focus on pure nonsense!
Businesses cannot refuse service in violation of anti-discrimination laws. If they do, they are subject to legal consequences. If a State bans discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, then a business cannot legally refuse service on the basis of sexual orientation. You could leave your State, or you could leave your business, or you could accept the possibility of legal consequences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHOSTRIDER AZ
This whole thing has spiral out of control for the sake of Social Justice. This should of never made to the Supreme Court and is a trivial matter on a small scale. The business in question probably did not feel comfortable to take care of this client and turned it down. Or he did not need the work and turned it down.
I have turned business down in the past because I was not a fit for my business or my personal standards. It could range from profitability, current high work load to just do feel comfortable with the client.
This ultra high sensitively over gay people is way to far. This again is to criminalize any who doesn't not whole heartily support the gay movement. What a shame they have to feel they should be a protected class. Rather than equal rights for all American Citizens!
If the State passes a law prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, then businesses must abide by that law. Businesses do not have the right to violate anti-discrimination laws on the ground that they "have the right to refuse service to anyone." Your problem is with the State legislature that passed the anti-discrimination law.
Wherever in the world you do business, you must abide by applicable law. That includes anti-discrimination laws. If you violate them, then you must be prepared to face the legal consequences of your violation. It's that simple. If you refused 50 gay couples service, but never refused a straight couple, then it would be reasonable for a jury to infer that you refused the gay couples because of their sexuality in violation of anti-discrimination laws (if they exist in your State).
See above. Be prepared to pay for violating anti-discrimination laws if your purpose for refusing service is to engage in prohibited discrimination.
Businesses must abide by the laws of the places in which they do business. It does not matter where they incorporate (except for internal corporate affairs, which are beyond the scope of this discussion).
Businesses cannot refuse service in violation of anti-discrimination laws. If they do, they are subject to legal consequences. If a State bans discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, then a business cannot legally refuse service on the basis of sexual orientation. You could leave your State, or you could leave your business, or you could accept the possibility of legal consequences.
If the State passes a law prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, then businesses must abide by that law. Businesses do not have the right to violate anti-discrimination laws on the ground that they "have the right to refuse service to anyone." Your problem is with the State legislature that passed the anti-discrimination law.
There are several federal anti-discrimination laws, but (as the poster stated) the one in question as to discrimination by the basis of sexual orientation was a State law
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge
Your problem is with the State legislature that passed the anti-discrimination law.
And here's the actual state law in question
Quote:
" An Act Relating to Human Rights, N.M. S.B. 28 to be codified at ch. 196, N.M. Stat. Ann. §§ 28-1-2, 7, 9 (April 8, 2003); N.M. Stat. Ann. § 28-1-7 (2001). Sexual orientation is defined to mean: heterosexuality, homosexuality or bisexuality, whether actual or perceived. Under the law, it is illegal to discriminate against gays, lesbians, bisexuals and heterosexuals in matters of employment, housing, credit, public accommodations and union membership. Sexual orientation discrimination is also prohibited in New Mexico public employment by executive order. New Mexico Exec. Order No. 85-15 (Apr. 1, 1985).
Navada used to be a popular state. The business I worked at in San Diego was incorporated in Nevada.
And that business would have to abide by California law when conducting business in California. A disproportionate number of companies incorporate in Delaware, but they do not then apply Delaware's anti-discrimination rules when they are doing business in other states.
I used to work for a photographer. I did the custom black-and-white printing, and mixed the chemicals. My boss did our wedding pictures as a wedding gift.
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Everyone has the right to turn business down.
