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Became one now or became one sometime in the past? If the U.S. went communist after WWI or perhaps during the 1930's I think America would go down the same road the Soviets did rather than the Chinese, and the system would have collapsed from within by now and yield to a new order of free market capitalism. In such an event communist states would have dominated Europe after WWII, and Switzerland or Sweden would be looked upon as a model for capitalism rather than America post-collapse. My guess is that while America would be worse off now, it would have a clearer and brighter path for the rest of the 21st century than it does today.
If it became one now, you would see much the same take place, just shifted forward a century.
Became one now or became one sometime in the past? If the U.S. went communist after WWI or perhaps during the 1930's I think America would go down the same road the Soviets did rather than the Chinese, and the system would have collapsed from within by now and yield to a new order of free market capitalism. In such an event communist states would have dominated Europe after WWII, and Switzerland or Sweden would be looked upon as a model for capitalism rather than America post-collapse. My guess is that while America would be worse off now, it would have a clearer and brighter path for the rest of the 21st century than it does today.
If it became one now, you would see much the same take place, just shifted forward a century.
The road the Chinese took was to let the capitalists give them the rope needed to hang the capitalists. America, Britain, Germany and Japan have given the Chinese the capital and the technology to now assume world leadership in the 21st Century and beyond. Now we can't get by without Chinese manufatcures and soon Cjinese technology all on Chinese credit. The Chinese are positively BRILLIANT. Who says Communism with Chinese characteristics does not work.
The road the Chinese took was to let the capitalists give them the rope needed to hang the capitalists. America, Britain, Germany and Japan have given the Chinese the capital and the technology to now assume world leadership in the 21st Century and beyond. Now we can't get by without Chinese manufactures and soon Chinese technology all on Chinese credit. The Chinese are positively BRILLIANT. Who says Communism with Chinese characteristics does not work.
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I say it does not work, on so many levels.
I also say it works only because of lots of pain spent without choice or real vote, in living memory.
Sorry Mwruckman, you are almost certainly yet another person who has never learned Chinese ways nor lived in China. My Chinese language abilities are only so-so, but did live there for quite a few years.
Let's see, we start with plenty of room up, just like the Chinese with The Great Leap Forward (30 million or so dead, most all by starvation, especially the PC handicapped and their relatives) and WWII (40 million dead), then top off with whip cream icing of the Cultural Revolution. One Chinese businessman doing business in Southern China told me in 1998 that at some of the factories he dealt with, they used cattle whips to scare and occasionally direct use on the workers. The reason was that people raised in the Cultural Revolution were at that time 'hard to control'. The 'company' was the PLA, which has, I don't know now, but maybe a 10% share of the economy in factories, run by the military with civilian workers.
Yes, I did try to get a couple of reporters, both big, both known to myself and I to them. Too much research to verify was the response.
Read anything of China by WuDunn and Kristof, like China Wakes. I laughed so hard because it was all seen first hand, and so happened to the associates that read it. I would meet the head of Nike in China, whose son also went to my son's class, so we were at the PTA (not PLA) a dozen of us. We had some interesting conversations about Chinese workers. That was before the suicide prevention nets.
What you are looking at is the successful grafting of western methods to Chinese life, which happened (with capitalism) in Japan circa 1950-1980, Korea circa 1960-1990, etc. Once it has been done, the momentum is gone. According to John Lee of Newsweek, 65% of China's economic assets are currently owned by the government. They consistently are a sea of red ink, almost never export to the biggest economies, and it is only the capitalist 35% that carries the day, leached off by the Red Geniuses you love is in reality some sort of enormous, sick vampire named General Vlad Chen. The abilities of the Chinese businessman are unbelievably vast yet mercenary. One Chinese hotel furniture business woman warned me the movers and shakers big and small know you make only one mistake and are dead by pack behaved capitalists. Step on the toes of the government and it is worse.
Getting back to the original post, during the 1933 FDR honeymoon, Eleanor Roosevelt openly wanted a 'benevolent dictatorship' for her husband, along with her loving and extremely liberal friends. That would be the strongest path similar to our own timeline, with divergence. But go too far, and it would be next to impossible to collect all the guns of the US in any reasonable time frame. Guns were rather common in Russia pre 1917, but not to the same degree, and certainly no where near the capital city. Get rid of the second amendment by the court packing scheme in 1933 instead of 1937.
The USA a clone of the old Soviet Union? Never happen. Before things went that far there would be large scale insurrections and perhap an all out Right/Left civil war. In such a scenario, unlike the Russia of 1917, the Right would win. Before you say that the military would crush such uprisings, think again. The Armed Forces would splinter, with many refusing to fire on fellow Americans, and many more going over to the rebel side, taking their weapons, training, and skills with them. It has been this way in every civil war in history.
If the US became a Communist Country it would have massive military spending coupled with a massive prison population, whilst there would be massive public spending and everything would be controlled centrally from Washington.
Became one now or became one sometime in the past? If the U.S. went communist after WWI or perhaps during the 1930's I think America would go down the same road the Soviets did rather than the Chinese, and the system would have collapsed from within by now and yield to a new order of free market capitalism. In such an event communist states would have dominated Europe after WWII, and Switzerland or Sweden would be looked upon as a model for capitalism rather than America post-collapse. My guess is that while America would be worse off now, it would have a clearer and brighter path for the rest of the 21st century than it does today.
If it became one now, you would see much the same take place, just shifted forward a century.
I don't think so. There is a reason why the Soviet Union turned out the way it did. Unlike the US or western Europe, the USSR was made up of an mostly uneducated peasant class. It never had a major industrial revolution nor did it have a large merchant class. That is one of the things that made it ripe for revolution. China was slightly different, as it did have those things, but there was also vast gap in wealth and a large peasant population. Had WWII not have happened the Chinese revolution likely never have would happened.
I think a communist USA would have been much closer to East Germany. While East Germany was known for having the biggest police states, it was also the most technically advanced of the comecon nations. The DDR had a fairly advanced semi-conductor and medical research industries. Had it not been such an oppressive regime and constantly ripped off by the USSR(they were still paying war reparation up until the fall of the wall) then it would have had a fairly decent and productive economy. I don't mean that as an endorsement of Marxism, more trying to make a point that the people and culture can be as important or even the most important aspect of social and economic success.
I am more into stateless communism where people take the parts that work in policies and that politics are not career politics but they are doing the best for the people and are not out sourcing information to use in their discourses instead they know their stand by doing research.
If the United States were into communism people would be rewarded for their work and true communism has nothing to do with money, also I am like archo-communist so no hierarchy.
There are a lot of good things in communism, free college for one of them not being a business and also social responsibility. Also guarantied work and everything would work into making the future better for everyone.
Last edited by Eleanoroftroy; 12-04-2014 at 03:30 PM..
Reason: Because I wanted to express myself
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