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What does having a MDA have to do with our current defense budget going out of control? When was the last time the US went to war due to one of our allies being invaded?
You should go hang out with Neville chamberlain, sounds like your type of guy.
First of all, you hawk types have overplayed the 1938 Munich thing into the ground. You use it so much that the argument no longer retains any effectiveness in an argument. There was a time when such an accusation would annoy the accused, but not anymore. This country is under no obligation to run our foreign policy according to what happened in Munich and we shouldn't be wedded to this "no appeasement" nonsense.
Besides, you made the argument for me. If the United States hasn't went to war on behalf of an invaded ally in decades, that just proves that we don't need a mutual defense treaty with anyone.
Again, the United States has nothing to gain in such an agreement. We don't need Israel to help us defend ourselves. And according to them, they don't need us either. So why bother with it?
Israel and the United States has the right to exist insofar as they can defend such a right...and defend it by themselves. When you can't defend that existence, then too bad. That's life.
Americans shouldn't be agreeing to defend anyone in a war but the United States. We shouldn't be defending Japan, Europe, South Korea, or any other country at our monetary expense.
If that makes me a friend of Chamberlain, then Chamberlain is alright by me.
I have to say that the Palestinians are probably the most dishonest, devious, deceitful, and cowardly people. They are a radical Muslim jihadi group no different than ISIS, Boko Haram, Chechen rebels and Abu Sayyaf, yet have managed to get sympathy from many countries, including countries that themselves face threats from Muslim terrorism.
1. The Israeli military has constantly warned Palestinian civilians, and on Fox News it actually mentioned that Hamas is telling the civilians NOT to heed those warning. The Hamas terrorists WANT heavy civilian casualties in Gaza so they can score propaganda points in the court of international public opinion. No other military warns civilians of impending air raids, none. When Russia fought Islamic sharia rebels in Chechnya they bombed Chechen cities indiscriminately with no warning. Hamas hides behind their women and children.
2. The lopsided death toll between Israel and Palestine is only because the Palestinians have terrible aim and their rockets are inaccurate. Its NOT from a lack of desire or bloodthirstiness from the Arabs and Muslims. The Israelis target Hamas terrorists with pinpoint strikes and collateral damage is sometimes unavoidable, especially when these terrorists use their own family members as human shields. If Hamas is able to acquire more accurate rockets there will be total disaster in Israel. Hamas PURPOSELY fires at civilian targets in Israel. We also saw how before the West Bank barrier was built, they sent waves of suicide bombers against Israel killing people on buses and marketplaces. This fighting began because the Muslims went into Israel and kidnapped, tortured and murdered 3 Israeli teenage boys. Thankfully for Israel they finished building the fence (and on a side note liberal Jewish Democrats in the US should also support a similar fence on the Mexican border). Nobody in the US except for the most ardent radical liberals have complained about the lopsided death toll in Iraq and Afghanistan, or in the Russian war in Chechnya.
3. The Muslims are NOT interested in a two-state solution. Israel will leave the West Bank (as its already left Gaza left the Gazans are STILL engaging in terrorism) when it is safe and secure, when there is a peace agreement. One thing that will also hamper a peace agreement is the Palestinian demand for "right of return" into Israel. That's something Israel can never accept. They say they are okay with a "two state solution" but its not really a two-state solution if there is the right of return, which would allow millions of Arabs and Muslims to move into Israel and change its demographics so its no longer a Jewish majority country. Their "Two state solution" means two Islamic states both ruled under sharia and having an Arab Muslim majority. Oh yes and if right of return is allowed and the Muslims take over Israel the Jews there will have NO rights. No majority Muslim country tolerates religious minorities. Muslims are unable to live in peace with any other group, look at China, India, the Philippines, Nigeria, Bosnia, Kosovo, Chechnya etc etc.
4. The Israeli occupation of Palestine will end when the Palestinians do the reasonable thing and give up their "right of return" and stop engaging in terrorism against Israel. Besides Palestine would be independent, and there would be no Israeli settlements today, if the Muslims didn't attack Israel in 1948 and just accepted the UN partition.
Israel does not have clean hands in this no more than the other side.
Anyone, both Muslims and those on the liberal left who demand that Israel accept the Palestinian right of return does not really support Israel's right to exist. If right of return is granted, there will be no more Israel. Arabs and Muslims will swarm into what is now Israel and become more than half the population. Then they can declare an Islamic sharia state and maybe even vote to become part of Palestine. No matter how much a moral superiority the IDF has over Hamas, Hezbollah, and Islamic Jihad, that won't matter to liberal leftists who claim Israel is a colonialist state and compares the Palestinians to Native Americans. Very surprising that so many on the left sympathize with Muslim radicals even after all the terrorist attacks around the war not just 9-11 but in London, Madrid, Bali, Nigeria, Somalia, Kenya, the Philippines, China, and Russia. Also surprising given that radical islam is NOT very tolerant of gay marriage! Gays, LGBT people, and women have far more rights in Israel than in any Muslim country. In past during the last intifada there was an internal Palestinian debate on whether the Islamic Koran permits women to serve as suicide bombers. Yassir Arafat's group was considered "progressive" for using female suicide bombers when Hamas and Islamic Jihad didn't allow that.
Wasn't there an agreement in the beginning to allow the return of the Palestinians?
You're looking at Israel with a narrow view. Step back and look at the region. Keeping Israel armed, keeps the focus on them. They in a way are a bridge blocking intrusion from North African Muslims nations from entering the European region and doing major havoc on Christians. IMO the EU sends money to the US to send to Israel for the simple reason that the US is not easily reachable by the radicals. Keep in mind nearly all of Europe has played both sides of the coin for as long as they've existed. The US takes a brunt of the heat for this reason. Its not a simple trade of one thing for another.
You're looking at Israel with a narrow view. Step back and look at the region. Keeping Israel armed, keeps the focus on them. They in a way are a bridge blocking intrusion from North African Muslims nations from entering the European region and doing major havoc on Christians. IMO the EU sends money to the US to send to Israel for the simple reason that the US is not easily reachable by the radicals. Keep in mind nearly all of Europe has played both sides of the coin for as long as they've existed. The US takes a brunt of the heat for this reason. Its not a simple trade of one thing for another.
Basically this. Israel will do the dirty work that needs to be done in order to keep lid on the extremists. They have much better intelligence and a pulse on the area than the US will ever have.
The only reasonable thing is for Israel to maybe give monetary compensation to the Palestinians who can prove they were alive in 1948 and were displaced by the founding of Israel and reimburse them the value of the 1948 value of their properties. it would probably amount a few hundred US dollars in today's money, if that.
Imagine if Mexicans demanded a "right of return" to Texas and California. That would be ridiculous. The Palestinians are also too jihadi to allow casinos like the Indian casinos in the US.
Imagine if Mexicans demanded a "right of return" to Texas and California. That would be ridiculous.
No doubt. When you lose a war, you lose land.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70
The Palestinians are also too jihadi to allow casinos like the Indian casinos in the US.
This actually isn't true. There used to be popular casinos that Israelis would spend buckets of money on in Gaza. However, the Palestinians ruined it by attacking the people that brought in 95% of the money and now they don't go to Jericho and similar places anymore because it's not safe.
You're looking at Israel with a narrow view. Step back and look at the region. Keeping Israel armed, keeps the focus on them. They in a way are a bridge blocking intrusion from North African Muslims nations from entering the European region and doing major havoc on Christians. IMO the EU sends money to the US to send to Israel for the simple reason that the US is not easily reachable by the radicals. Keep in mind nearly all of Europe has played both sides of the coin for as long as they've existed. The US takes a brunt of the heat for this reason. Its not a simple trade of one thing for another.
Sounds like a problem for the Europeans to me. If Israel is a check on north African Muslim designs, then great. But that's got NOTHING to do with me as an American. That doesn't sound like a good reason for a mutual defense treaty with Israel. Sounds like they need that treaty with southern Europe.
So still, I don't gain a thing by such an alliance. It's one sided. The oceans between me and the Arab World work well enough.
And please...don't bring up 9/11 because no treaty can stop something like that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperionGap
Basically this. Israel will do the dirty work that needs to be done in order to keep lid on the extremists. They have much better intelligence and a pulse on the area than the US will ever have.
Great...your last sentence sums it all up.
Since Israel has a better grasp of the area than we do..not to mention that they've already defeated the Arab states in a major war, why do they need a defense pact with us?
Israel will do the grunt work. Great. But that has nothing to do with us.
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