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Old 07-17-2014, 03:35 AM
 
Location: The Island of Misfit Toys
2,765 posts, read 2,795,581 times
Reputation: 2366

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They are used as a way to drive up the costs of everything for everyone.

What's the point of a job if we have to go to someone else to buy a car, to buy a house, to replace our car in an accident, to repair our house, to pay for college, to open a business or to pay our medical bills? Why doesn't capitalism allow the majority of those under its system to manage and take care of these expenses themselves? Why is it only the "successful"?

If this is not true capitalism, why is it still working for the rich and well off (not the average) and their success attributed to capitalism?

It seems to me a truly successful economic system would bring self-sufficiency to the majority, the rich and non rich alike, not dependence on lending.

Loans mean dependence. Loans mean something is failing. Loans mean work is failing.

What's.the.point.of.a.job?

The point of a job is for you to keep paying your debts to somebody else for decades and decades. Indentured servitude.

There was no way to raise prices on people that weren't being paid enough so instead of paying people more, lending was invented. Now prices could be raised and the serfs could be corralled into debt to the banks.

Technology hasn't driven high prices. Banks have by telling everyone in business or with a practice to raise their prices. "Don't worry. Just send your clients to us and we'll pay your higher prices for them just as long as it gets them in our door and leaves them in debt to us for a while." And once banks got that, insurance companies needed to be created to pay for all these higher prices.

How stupid can we be?

And how very clever of them. Unfortunately, the wrong response is to keep buying and working. When you do that, they know you're stupid and they got you.

The proper response is to live with what you got.
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Old 07-17-2014, 04:23 AM
 
Location: Someplace Wonderful
5,177 posts, read 4,796,609 times
Reputation: 2587
Without banks, without lending, we would be living in tents and walking everyplace we go. There wouldnt be much in the way of industry because there would be no way to gather enough capital to start factories. 99% of us would be employed planting and picking crops.

Debt is not a bad thing. It brings prosperity to most of us.
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Old 07-17-2014, 05:03 AM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,379,242 times
Reputation: 7990
I had a friend who was born in Vietnam and came to the US. I asked him why so many Asians found success in the US while the mother country remains in poverty. They come here and win all the spelling bees, & dominate in math class, then go on to make money as adults. He replied that there is a better banking system here, allowing people to borrow money to start businesses, and everything else flows from there.
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Old 07-17-2014, 05:27 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,102,593 times
Reputation: 17865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shankapotomus View Post
What's the point of a job if we have to go to someone else to buy a car, to buy a house, to replace our car in an accident, to repair our house, to pay for college, to open a business or to pay our medical bills? Why doesn't capitalism allow the majority of those under its system to manage and take care of these expenses themselves? Why is it only the "successful"?
The biggest problem now is people want things now instead of waiting until they can afford them. Let's take the car as an example. I can afford a new car but I have a 92 Buick Regal I purchased with 30K miles on it for $2800 a few years ago.... cash. Brand new one is about $30K. It's fully loaded and in great shape. I'm looking for another car and when I sell the one I have now I'll probably get almost what I paid for it. Certainly I'll lose nothing more than what someone else would have paid in few months on payments for a new one. I probably coulnd't get comprehensive insurance but I don't need it anyway. Just liability and no way around that becsue that's to protect other drivers against loss.

I can take that car payment I'm not making and put it towards a house. Let's suppose I go buy a small fixer upper with a mortgage payment not much larger than the car payment that I'll be able to pay off in 10 years. After 10 years I'll go buy a nicer house and rent my other house out and put that towards the mortgage payment on my new house....

Quote:
The proper response is to live with what you got.
Exactly.
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Old 07-17-2014, 05:28 AM
 
Location: The Island of Misfit Toys
2,765 posts, read 2,795,581 times
Reputation: 2366
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckmann View Post
Without banks, without lending, we would be living in tents and walking everyplace we go. There wouldnt be much in the way of industry because there would be no way to gather enough capital to start factories. 99% of us would be employed planting and picking crops.

Debt is not a bad thing. It brings prosperity to most of us.
You just reinforced my point without asking yourself why. Why are loans necessary at all? Why can't working people procure homes and cars and medical care with their own money after working 40 hours a week?

You seemed to be so reliant on and brainwashed by a debt economy you have completely overlooked the question of why?
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Old 07-17-2014, 05:30 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,273,228 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shankapotomus View Post
You just reinforced my point without asking yourself why. Why are loans necessary at all? Why can't working people procure homes and cars and medical care with their own money after working 40 hours a week?

You seemed to be so reliant on and brainwashed by a debt economy you have completely overlooked the question of why?
Outside of a major medical expense you can. You just don't want to wait.
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Old 07-17-2014, 05:31 AM
 
Location: The Island of Misfit Toys
2,765 posts, read 2,795,581 times
Reputation: 2366
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
I had a friend who was born in Vietnam and came to the US. I asked him why so many Asians found success in the US while the mother country remains in poverty. They come here and win all the spelling bees, & dominate in math class, then go on to make money as adults. He replied that there is a better banking system here, allowing people to borrow money to start businesses, and everything else flows from there.
Again, another neglects to ask the question of why?

Sure, loans can get you stuff but why the hell do working people need loans and to be in debt? Something is messed up.
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Old 07-17-2014, 05:32 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,419 posts, read 20,333,713 times
Reputation: 8958
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shankapotomus View Post
They are used as a way to drive up the costs of everything for everyone.

What's the point of a job if we have to go to someone else to buy a car, to buy a house, to replace our car in an accident, to repair our house, to pay for college, to open a business or to pay our medical bills? Why doesn't capitalism allow the majority of those under its system to manage and take care of these expenses themselves? Why is it only the "successful"?

If this is not true capitalism, why is it still working for the rich and well off (not the average) and their success attributed to capitalism?

It seems to me a truly successful economic system would bring self-sufficiency to the majority, the rich and non rich alike, not dependence on lending.

Loans mean dependence. Loans mean something is failing. Loans mean work is failing.

What's.the.point.of.a.job?

The point of a job is for you to keep paying your debts to somebody else for decades and decades. Indentured servitude.

There was no way to raise prices on people that weren't being paid enough so instead of paying people more, lending was invented. Now prices could be raised and the serfs could be corralled into debt to the banks.

Technology hasn't driven high prices. Banks have by telling everyone in business or with a practice to raise their prices. "Don't worry. Just send your clients to us and we'll pay your higher prices for them just as long as it gets them in our door and leaves them in debt to us for a while." And once banks got that, insurance companies needed to be created to pay for all these higher prices.

How stupid can we be?

And how very clever of them. Unfortunately, the wrong response is to keep buying and working. When you do that, they know you're stupid and they got you.

The proper response is to live with what you got.
You are seriously naïvé.
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Old 07-17-2014, 05:36 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,102,593 times
Reputation: 17865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shankapotomus View Post
Why can't working people procure homes and cars and medical care with their own money after working 40 hours a week?
There is distinct difference between buying a car and a house. You're throwing money away on car no matter what you pay for it, a house is an investment.
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Old 07-17-2014, 05:39 AM
 
24,832 posts, read 37,372,654 times
Reputation: 11539
I agree with not borrowing money unless you NEED it......never for something you want.

I have paid cash for things for a long time now.....back years ago I went without things so I did not borrow money.

Insurance....that I love.

No one like to pay the bill....but, what better way to protect your investment???

We help people all the time deal with their homeowner's insurance to pay for repairs to their water systems.
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