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Old 08-08-2014, 12:08 PM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,221,200 times
Reputation: 18824

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Is this really what we want? Bases all over the world, overthrowing governments, installing puppet dictators, interfering in the internal politics of other nations, launching preemptive wars, chasing terrorists with whole army divisions, exporting arms instead of seeking free trade deals, propping up brutal governments....

How much longer should we pledge to defend nations like South Korea and Japan that are wealthy enough to defend themselves?

Why do our politicians keep saying that "The U.S. must take the lead..."


Why is fixing Baghdad and Kabul more important than fixing St. Louis or Detroit?

Where are we going with all this? Shouldn't a nation with as many failures in foreign policy as we've managed to rack up since WW2 finally realize that we suck at this empire stuff?

Why are Americans afraid of being just another nation in the family of nations? What's wrong with that notion? Why can't we just lead by being an example instead of dictating to others how they should live and how they should be governed?

The good thing is that it seems as if the mood might be changing, but i'm not sure. Many people i talk to seem to agree that it's time to fold up the tent and worry about fixing America first.

 
Old 08-08-2014, 01:32 PM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,896 posts, read 11,995,123 times
Reputation: 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Is this really what we want? Bases all over the world, overthrowing governments, installing puppet dictators, interfering in the internal politics of other nations, launching preemptive wars, chasing terrorists with whole army divisions, exporting arms instead of seeking free trade deals, propping up brutal governments....

How much longer should we pledge to defend nations like South Korea and Japan that are wealthy enough to defend themselves?

Why do our politicians keep saying that "The U.S. must take the lead..."


Why is fixing Baghdad and Kabul more important than fixing St. Louis or Detroit?

Where are we going with all this? Shouldn't a nation with as many failures in foreign policy as we've managed to rack up since WW2 finally realize that we suck at this empire stuff?

Why are Americans afraid of being just another nation in the family of nations? What's wrong with that notion? Why can't we just lead by being an example instead of dictating to others how they should live and how they should be governed?

The good thing is that it seems as if the mood might be changing, but i'm not sure. Many people i talk to seem to agree that it's time to fold up the tent and worry about fixing America first.

If you want my opinion, and yes it sounds like right out of Star Wars Revenge Of The Sith, but did you ever get the feeling we're becoming the very thing we fought against? I don't mind leading by example, or being the beacon of hope for those who want to make a better life for themselves (legally of course) but I have no interest in going out like the Roman Empire, or any other empire in history. In short...friends with all... entangling alliances with none.
 
Old 08-08-2014, 01:35 PM
 
34,279 posts, read 19,384,355 times
Reputation: 17261
We need to stop fighting other peoples wars.

You want us to fight your wars? Become a US state.

Jesus....as I say this I have this vision of the Ukraine becoming a state and how much Russia would freak out.
 
Old 08-08-2014, 01:38 PM
 
9,470 posts, read 6,973,518 times
Reputation: 2177
They aren't. you don't know what "imperial" is.
 
Old 08-08-2014, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,519,997 times
Reputation: 27720
We've turned into the Roman Empire where the world has to be under our thumb.
 
Old 08-08-2014, 02:22 PM
 
16,545 posts, read 13,459,609 times
Reputation: 4243
Why are Lefties so comfortable with an Imperial President?
 
Old 08-08-2014, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,899,377 times
Reputation: 11259
It is really time to return to a paleoconservative foreign policy.
 
Old 08-08-2014, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,868 posts, read 24,399,838 times
Reputation: 8672
I have no idea.

I will tell you this, the same folks who preach "2nd amendment" and say they stand for limited government should know that the founding fathers would be rolling in their graves.

They wanted us to stay out of foreign engagements. They knew that doing that would just slowly drag us into a military empire, which is exactly what has happened.

Madison warned about a overbloated executive branch and a large military would not long be friends to liberty. Eisenhower warned about the Military industrial complex in the 50's.

Yet here we are. A military that costs twice what the rest of the world combined spends. 4 times more then China our nearest possible enemy.

Yeah, we need to step back and let the world deal with its own **** for a while. You can try to be a friend to a drunk, but sometimes you've got to let them hit bottom before lending a hand up. You're just delaying the inevitable.
 
Old 08-08-2014, 02:44 PM
 
20,187 posts, read 23,864,594 times
Reputation: 9284
When the liberals stole all that money from other people, you think it was going to used by only by them to expand their voter base? You think everyone was going to let them do that?
 
Old 08-08-2014, 03:08 PM
 
Location: WY
6,262 posts, read 5,073,096 times
Reputation: 8000
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Is this really what we want? Bases all over the world, overthrowing governments, installing puppet dictators, interfering in the internal politics of other nations, launching preemptive wars, chasing terrorists with whole army divisions, exporting arms instead of seeking free trade deals, propping up brutal governments....

How much longer should we pledge to defend nations like South Korea and Japan that are wealthy enough to defend themselves?

Why do our politicians keep saying that "The U.S. must take the lead..."


Why is fixing Baghdad and Kabul more important than fixing St. Louis or Detroit?

Where are we going with all this? Shouldn't a nation with as many failures in foreign policy as we've managed to rack up since WW2 finally realize that we suck at this empire stuff?

Why are Americans afraid of being just another nation in the family of nations? What's wrong with that notion? Why can't we just lead by being an example instead of dictating to others how they should live and how they should be governed?

The good thing is that it seems as if the mood might be changing, but i'm not sure. Many people i talk to seem to agree that it's time to fold up the tent and worry about fixing America first.
We've had bases all over the world for decades, we install dictators who we think we can control and it inevitably turns out that we can't. We start wars and there is an entire generation of Americans who know nothing about winning, and everything about withdrawel.

My son did two tours of Iraq. For what? For nothing, that's what. I think about all those kids - all those young men and women who died or who have debiltating and catastrophic injuries and it breaks my heart. I think about an entire generation of kids who fought for their country (some who did five or six or more tours in these desert crapholes we sent them to) because their country told them to go. For what? For nothing.

We send money every single year to countries that are corrupt, to countries that hate us, to countries that actively work towards our destruction. For what? For nothing.

Our government is incapable of handling affairs in THIS country. We have ample history to teach us that we are incapable of handling the affairs of other countries as well. We need to stop. We need to stop doing all the stupid things that we have been doing internationally for far too long. We can't install democracies in countries where citizens are not prepared to fight and die for the right to install democracy themselves. We cannot force countries that are determined to live in the stone age to adopt 21st concepts. We should not be spending money that we don't have on other countries, when our own country has so many needs of its own. We should not militarily involve ourselves in any country when it does not specifically and measurably further the safety of the homeland . We cannot nation build and "win the hearts and minds" while supposedly waging war. It just does not work - and the question should be asked........why? Why do we keep doing the same things decade after decade and expecting a different outcome?

Unless specific and measurable and positive outcomes are not the real agenda. I'm not smart enough to understand the real complexities of how government and business tie together, but between those two entities there has to be symbiotic relationship with money and power. Those are the only two tangibles that both of those entities have in common.

I agree with everything that you wrote. I also agree that the mood of the country is shifting. There is an increasing desire to take care of our own first and let other countries sort out their own problems, and I personally think that is a good thing. We do not get it right in our own country and history has taught us that we do not get it right internationally either. Close the check book to other nations, close whatever bases we don't need as staging areas, and work (finally for God's sakes) on developing energy supplies here at home.
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