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Old 08-08-2014, 03:25 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,590 posts, read 45,236,649 times
Reputation: 13870

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Let's take a look at what the college and career readiness statistics show... and it doesn't matter if one doesn't intend to go to college, the same academic skills are needed by those who wish to pursue a career as a skilled tradesman, and particularly by those who wish to start and manage their own business.

College & Career Readiness statistics:

African American: 5%
American Indian: 10%
Asian: 43%
Hispanic: 14%
Pacific Islander: 19%
White: 33%

The Condition of College & Career Readiness 2013 | ACT College Readiness Benchmarks by Race/Ethnicity | ACT

Does it not in fact look like some demographic groups are getting inferior educations regardless of the fact that many inner-city public school districts are the highest spending school systems in the country? Or are those demographic groups just dumber than everyone else? I think it's the former as opposed to the latter.

Furthermore... 2/3 of minority adults support school vouchers, but the Democrats for whom minorities vote time and time again, don't:
Quote:
"Pro-voucher voters among racial minorities overwhelmingly support Barack Obama, but they are baffled by the Democratic nominee's opposition to vouchers. They also say they are frustrated that Democratic leaders appear to be more concerned about keeping the peace with teachers unions -- which adamantly oppose vouchers -- than about finding alternatives that could advance desperately needed education reforms for minority students.

...Public opinion polls also show solid support for school vouchers among minority parents. Sixty-five percent of adult African-Americans and 63 percent of adult Hispanics favor the use of vouchers, according to a national survey conducted earlier this year under the auspices of the journal Education Next and the Program on Education Policy and Governance at Harvard University. In the survey, more than half of minority adults gave higher marks to their local police than their public schools.

"There is no doubt that on this issue, ...Obama has it wrong," Martin wrote."
Democrats for Education Reform

How can we help people if they insist on continuing to vote against their own and their children's best interests?
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Old 08-08-2014, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,730,550 times
Reputation: 27720
CTE is still fairly new and there's hoops that have to be jumped.
Some CTE requires professionals with licenses to teach the class. But these professionals would also have to enroll in an Alternative Teaching program to become certified to teach. And then they suffer a loss of income to take a beginner teacher salary.

Some schools have been able to recruit professionals and some of their programs are well suited to those HS students who don't plan to go to college. Cosmetology, Vet Assistant, etc...classes like that actually prepare non college bound students for a better chance at a job then flipping burgers.

And a lot of schools are still trying to understand CTE. They don't know what they want.
In some cases they want a teacher who knows it all and in depth. They don't understand that in real life people specialize.

I saw one where the requirements were database design and implementation certification along with graphics arts and digital video experience. Good luck in finding a person who has "deep knowledge" of those three distinct areas of work.

Even they have to meet NCLB's "Highly Qualified" mandate.
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Old 08-08-2014, 03:44 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,590 posts, read 45,236,649 times
Reputation: 13870
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
CTE is still fairly new and there's hoops that have to be jumped.
Some CTE requires professionals with licenses to teach the class. But these professionals would also have to enroll in an Alternative Teaching program to become certified to teach. And then they suffer a loss of income to take a beginner teacher salary.

Some schools have been able to recruit professionals and some of their programs are well suited to those HS students who don't plan to go to college. Cosmetology, Vet Assistant, etc...classes like that actually prepare non college bound students for a better chance at a job then flipping burgers.

And a lot of schools are still trying to understand CTE. They don't know what they want.
In some cases they want a teacher who knows it all and in depth. They don't understand that in real life people specialize.

I saw one where the requirements were database design and implementation certification along with graphics arts and digital video experience. Good luck in finding a person who has "deep knowledge" of those three distinct areas of work.

Even they have to meet NCLB's "Highly Qualified" mandate.
Even with CTE, the same academic skills are necessary for public school students to graduate with if they want to work in any of those fields and have the hope of owning their own business someday.
Quote:
"Today’s cutting-edge, rigorous and relevant career and technical education (CTE) prepares youth and adults for a wide range of high-wage, high-skill, high-demand careers."
https://www.acteonline.org/cte/
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Old 08-08-2014, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,730,550 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Even with CTE, the same academic skills are necessary for public school students to graduate with if they want to work in any of those fields and have the hope of owning their own business someday. https://www.acteonline.org/cte/
Cosmetology, welding, Vet Assistant are not high paying, high skill jobs.
BUT..they are certainly better than graduating HS with no skills.

And some of the aspirations written about these CTE classes would make you think that HS students will become more educated in 10 months than those with a 4 year college degree.

There's no way you can take a 10 month HS CTE class on Accounting and think you're skilled enough to go after an accounting job.
In that case that class should be used to get interested students more prepared to go to college to major in Accounting.
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Old 08-08-2014, 03:56 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,590 posts, read 45,236,649 times
Reputation: 13870
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Cosmetology, welding, Vet Assistant are not high paying, high skill jobs.
BUT..they are certainly better than graduating HS with no skills.
They can be higher paying if one starts one's own business.

Quote:
There's no way you can take a 10 month HS CTE class on Accounting and think you're skilled enough to go after an accounting job.
That's true.
Quote:
In that case that class should be used to get interested students more prepared to go to college to major in Accounting.
Or act as a bridge to further their knowledge enough to enable them to start and manage their own profitable business.

I will again quote from the ACTE source:
Quote:
"Today’s cutting-edge, rigorous and relevant career and technical education (CTE) prepares youth and adults for a wide range of high-wage, high-skill, high-demand careers."
https://www.acteonline.org/cte/

Rigorous. That's what's missing in many inner-city public schools.
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Old 08-08-2014, 05:41 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,859,049 times
Reputation: 6509
The parents (notice plural) have more do to with a child's ability to learn than what school someone goes to or how much is spent per student. Children growing up in an environment where education is valued and studying enforced will always do better than those with disengaged parents.
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Old 08-08-2014, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Central Ohio
10,834 posts, read 14,982,012 times
Reputation: 16605
Doesn't matter anymore because they don't matter.

America has a new racial minority which will sweep the black minority under the rug never to emerge.

Notice to black people, today is as good as it will ever get!
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Old 08-08-2014, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,730,550 times
Reputation: 27720
CTE is vocational education renamed.
Some of the classes are more academic in nature for college bound students.
Other classes, like Vet Assistant, Cosmetology, Auto Tech are the vocational classes of old.

CTE is also being used as a stopgap to keep kids in school rather then dropping out before they graduate.
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Old 08-08-2014, 07:14 PM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,639 posts, read 16,664,756 times
Reputation: 6081
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Let's take a look at what the college and career readiness statistics show... and it doesn't matter if one doesn't intend to go to college, the same academic skills are needed by those who wish to pursue a career as a skilled tradesman, and particularly by those who wish to start and manage their own business.
Yes it does. I knew I wanted to go to college, so my 8th grade year, when the high school freshman counselor came , I told her i want to take college prep classes.

Quote:
...................................

Does it not in fact look like some demographic groups are getting inferior educations regardless of the fact that many inner-city public school districts are the highest spending school systems in the country? Or are those demographic groups just dumber than everyone else? I think it's the former as opposed to the latter.
It looks like the cost and Demographics of people within the city is different from that of those in the country. Cost of living can be 3 times that of the country, so why is it you dont see it the same way when it comes to education ? could it be that some of those intercity schools are actually underfunded by everyday standards.

I mean, CNN showed a special a couple of months back where some schools didnt even have computers.


Quote:
Furthermore... 2/3 of minority adults support school vouchers, but the Democrats for whom minorities vote time and time again, don't:Democrats for Education Reform

How can we help people if they insist on continuing to vote against their own and their children's best interests?
You seem to be arguing an either or scenario.

People can be for vouchers AND For fixing public schools. That being said your link doesnt actually show you the results of the poll.

Gallup on the other hand, says 70% of all Americans are against vouchers.

https://www.au.org/files/pdf_documen..._PDKGallup.pdf

it doesnt break it down by ethnicity, but im guessing that even if it did, that number would be no where near 63%. There is a huge difference between the 2 polls.

It also isnt against someone best interest simply because you disagree with who they voted for. Democrats arent against vouchers, just so you know.(that seems to be the basis of your argument).
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Old 08-08-2014, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,953,775 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post

Democrats arent against vouchers, just so you know.(that seems to be the basis of your argument).
That is news to me.
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