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Old 01-22-2015, 10:02 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,745,361 times
Reputation: 9728

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
Wrong, relative to their income they would be paying their fair share with a flat tax.

A rich person would be paying, let's say, 18%. I'd be paying 18% as a middle class person. People making $15K a year would be paying 18%.

Let's say the rich person is earning $1,000,000, I'm earning $100,000. The poor person is making $10,000.

The rich guy would be paying $1,800,000. I'd be paying $18,000. The poor person would be paying $1,800.

See how that works. The more you make, the more you pay. It's quite fair.
That example shows very well why it is not fair. For someone earning just 10k, 1.8k is a whole lot of money that is really missing. After all, prices for the same stuff are the same no matter how much money you have. If food, rents, gas, etc. cost just 1/10 for the poor compared to wealthy people in absolute terms, your reasoning would make sense. But it doesn't, obviously, because payments are in absolute amounts, not relative ones.
In India there are stores which automatically charge more for the same thing if the buyer is a foreigner, assuming they have more money than local Indians. I think that makes sense.

 
Old 01-22-2015, 10:02 AM
 
34,619 posts, read 21,615,505 times
Reputation: 22232
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf39us View Post
And yet according to the chart the only person that benefits from flat taxes are the rich. Effectively you want the rich to be richer and the poor to be poorer (which is exactly what the rich want).

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/06/bu...y-problem.html
No, I want everybody to pay their fair share. A flat tax means that the more money you make, the more you pay and the less you make, the less you pay.

Should I run through the math again? Obviously I do.

Based on salary here is what you pay if we go hypothetical 18%.

$100,000,000 - $18,000,000
$1,000,000 - $180,000
$100,000 - $18,000
$50,000 - $9,000
$25,000 - $4,500

You see how that works?

The greater your salary, the more you pay.

If you are still confused, I'd be more than happy to help you some more.

We can start with the basics:

2 > 1
5 > 2
100 > 10

Let me know if you got that, and I'll continue on.
 
Old 01-22-2015, 10:11 AM
 
34,619 posts, read 21,615,505 times
Reputation: 22232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
That example shows very well why it is not fair. For someone earning just 10k, 1.8k is a whole lot of money. After all, prices for the same stuff are the same no matter how much money you have. If food, rents, gas, etc. cost just 1/10 for the poor compared to wealthy people in absolute terms, your reasoning would make sense. But it doesn't, obviously.
Sorry, but it's still fair when it's a flat percentage.

The problem with the person making $10,000 isn't the tax, it's the income. If you believe it's the tax, than how about a person making $8,000 and paying no taxes, how can they pay for rent, food, gas, etc.?
 
Old 01-22-2015, 10:14 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
That example shows very well why it is not fair. For someone earning just 10k, 1.8k is a whole lot of money that is really missing.
No. It's the exact same percentage of money that's missing. One's lack of ability to live within one's means shouldn't be someone else's responsibility.
 
Old 01-22-2015, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
11,998 posts, read 12,935,751 times
Reputation: 8365
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
Sorry, but it's still fair when it's a flat percentage.

The problem with the person making $10,000 isn't the tax, it's the income. If you believe it's the tax, than how about a person making $8,000 and paying no taxes, how can they pay for rent, food, gas, etc.?

You make a great case for raising the minimum wage and hitting nation-less corporations for tax penalties that don't hire Americans and evade taxes.

If people cannot live on their income, how can we expect them to pay taxes and be intergrated into our economy and society?

If a Corporation chooses to relocate outside of our country and fire Americans, why should we continue to import their products and allow them access to the largest consumer group on the planet?


Great, great point.
 
Old 01-22-2015, 10:17 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,745,361 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
Sorry, but it's still fair when it's a flat percentage.

The problem with the person making $10,000 isn't the tax, it's the income. If you believe it's the tax, than how about a person making $8,000 and paying no taxes, how can they pay for rent, food, gas, etc.?
Exactly, not having to pay taxes is just a quick fix for the underlying problem of an absurd income inequality. I have said it many times, but until and unless politicians realize that is a huge problem and thus solve it, that tax system will stay in place.
 
Old 01-22-2015, 10:21 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,745,361 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
No. It's the exact same percentage of money that's missing. One's lack of ability to live within one's means shouldn't be someone else's responsibility.
That's nonsense. Just because the same percentage looks simple, doesn't make it right or fair, no matter how much people long for simple solutions. There is a certain threshold under which it is simply no longer a matter of living within one's means.
 
Old 01-22-2015, 10:29 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,745,361 times
Reputation: 9728
The US has deliberately been keeping an underclass for a long time, like a pet. And some people are complaining that the pet has needs as well and constitutes a responsibility.
 
Old 01-22-2015, 10:33 AM
 
34,619 posts, read 21,615,505 times
Reputation: 22232
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2e1m5a View Post
You make a great case for raising the minimum wage and hitting nation-less corporations for tax penalties that don't hire Americans and evade taxes.

If people cannot live on their income, how can we expect them to pay taxes and be intergrated into our economy and society?

If a Corporation chooses to relocate outside of our country and fire Americans, why should we continue to import their products and allow them access to the largest consumer group on the planet?


Great, great point.
What happens to the leopard that never learns to hunt? Yes, it starves to death.

I know it's very difficult for you to understand that this world doesn't provide you with all of your needs when you just sit there, but it's true.

I know that I can't just sit there and expect water and food to magically just show up beside me.

I know that I can't just walk around and expect to be paid.

I know that I can't expect to increase my worth to employers without sacrificing and obtaining skills.

If you're only "skill" is flipping a burger, it's up to you to improve your skills to move ahead. Millions upon millions upon millions of people in the US continue to do so.
 
Old 01-22-2015, 10:34 AM
 
34,619 posts, read 21,615,505 times
Reputation: 22232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Democrats have deliberately been keeping an underclass for a long time, like a pet.
Fixed it for you.
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