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If currently popular scientific theories and hypotheses about the Earth's climate at different times over the course of its existence are correct (and they very well may not be), then:
1. From the time the Earth was formed (when it was purportedly covered with molten lava) until now, the Earth has cooled.
2. Around 650 million years ago, during the "Snowball Earth" period, the Earth was believed to have been covered in ice from pole to pole. Since that time, the Earth has warmed.
3. During the time of the dinosaurs, which spanned around 180 million years until about 65 million years ago, temperatures were largely warmer. So, since that time, the Earth has cooled.
4. Since the last ice age (around 12-20 thousand years ago), the Earth has warmed.
5. Since the Medieval Warming Period (around 800–1300 AD), when the Vikings were the terror of Europe and Greenland was actually green, the Earth has cooled.
6. Since the mini-ice age (around 1350-1850 AD), when the glaciers advanced, crop failures increased, deaths from epidemics and plague were common and Washington crossed an ice-choked Delaware river, the Earth has warmed.
7. Since around 1998, the Earth climate has stayed pretty flat and maybe even cooled a little bit.
Of course there are many other instances of cyclical climatic periods such as the ones above that could be added to this list. But the point is that the Earth's climate has always been in a state of change. It always has, and it always will. So no one should be surprised to discover that the Earth's climate continues to change at the present time.
Clearly, climate change is normal and natural on the planet Earth.
If currently popular scientific theories and hypotheses about the Earth's climate at different times over the course of its existence are correct (and they very well may not be), then:
1. From the time the Earth was formed (when it was purportedly covered with molten lava) until now, the Earth has cooled.
2. Around 650 million years ago, during the "Snowball Earth" period, the Earth was believed to have been covered in ice from pole to pole. Since that time, the Earth has warmed.
3. During the time of the dinosaurs, which spanned around 180 million years until about 65 million years ago, temperatures were largely warmer. So, since that time, the Earth has cooled.
4. Since the last ice age (around 12-20 thousand years ago), the Earth has warmed.
5. Since the Medieval Warming Period (around 800–1300 AD), when the Vikings were the terror of Europe and Greenland was actually green, the Earth has cooled.
6. Since the mini-ice age (around 1350-1850 AD), when the glaciers advanced, crop failures increased, deaths from epidemics and plague were common and Washington crossed an ice-choked Delaware river, the Earth has warmed.
7. Since around 1998, the Earth climate has stayed pretty flat and maybe even cooled a little bit.
Of course there are many other instances of cyclical climatic periods such as the ones above that could be added to this list. But the point is that the Earth's climate has always been in a state of change. It always has, and it always will. So no one should be surprised to discover that the Earth's climate continues to change at the present time.
Clearly, climate change is normal and natural on the planet Earth.
Obvious truth like this will be ignored by the AGW cult.
China has a population of 1.2 billion we are 300 million. They have about 400 million working in cities, the rest are by our standards unemployed, peasant farmers. They have 1/3 more people working in industry than we do.
I guess we can spend a lot of time arguing how China's workers equate to America's workers. I don't think the 400 million Chinese people in cities own nearly as many cars as the US citizenry or have nearly as much purchasing power as US citizens. The Wikipedia link below suggests that US citizens have 8 times as many cars than China does per 1000 residents. The US has 800 cars for each 1000 residents, while China is 100 cars per 1000 residents. Even if we chop down the numbers to 100 cars per 400 residents to account for your 800 million unemployed Chinese, that's just a 25% car rate, versus US' 80% car rate.
That being said, I'm assuming China's cars put out more CO2 per car than America's newer cars.
And transportation is just one piece of the CO2 emission pie
With regard to the science of climate change, the premise of advocates states that release of carbon into the atmosphere through the burning of fossil fuels drives the change. Therefore, the level of fossil fuel consumption must be reversed, if not halted outright, in order to return the planet's climate to its normal state.
What is the normal state of planet earth? Is the earth normal when covered with the glaciers that flattened the Great Plains of North America? Should the mass of ice that, by melting, created the Grand Canyon exist in the earth's normal state?
What is earth's normal temperature? Is it the average global temperature in 1750, before the dawn of the Industrial Age? Is it the average global temperature before man discovered how to recreate fire, thereby releasing all of the carbon captured in felled tree branches into the atmosphere? Is the correct average that of the Cretaceous period when dinosaurs roamed?
How was the average temperature of earth measured and recorded before thermometers and their predecessors, thermoscopes, were invented around the time of Galileo? Assuming global temperatures were recorded, how does the accuracy and scale of earlier instruments compare to the measures of today's satellites?
According to the Wikipedia geologic time scale, the level of carbon dioxide in earth's atmosphere during the Cretaceous period was close to today's level, whereas the level in the preceding Jurassic period was four to five times higher and the level during the Cambrian period was 25 to 30 times higher. Why is today's level considered normal? Was the average temperature during the Jurassic and Cambrian periods proportionally higher than the average temperature during the Cretaceous period and today?
All of this science forms the basis of my skepticism. Why are today's climate and CO2 level considered normal? Why, given the earth's history of CO2 level fluctuation, is man's use of oil and coal blamed for any perceived increase in global average temperature or CO2 levels? Who determined that CO2 levels are the cause of increased temperatures and not a consequence of such a rise? How, given the earth's history, is it now government's responsibility to maintain a normal earth temperature?
So, call me a denier. Proclaim my ignorance. Just answer this: how is man to blame for any fluctuation in earth's temperature or in any corresponding measured level of atmospheric CO2 levels, given the scientific examination of earth's historical temperature and CO2 level?
Why ask all these questions on an internet forum from non-scientists when all the information you need to educate yourself is freely available from reliable sources by scientists? It would take too long to explain in forum posts anyway. And why should you accept what some anonymous poster says?
eg If you really want to know, take some time to read through this well referenced history of the science behind global warming from the American Institute of Physics website by physicist Dr Spencer Weart:
or go to any of the education resources from the major science organisations/universities or NASA/NOAA etc.
If you learn more about the science, you might realise some of your questions don't make a lot of sense because they are based on a lack of basic knowledge of the science.
If currently popular scientific theories and hypotheses about the Earth's climate at different times over the course of its existence are correct (and they very well may not be), then:
1. From the time the Earth was formed (when it was purportedly covered with molten lava) until now, the Earth has cooled.
2. Around 650 million years ago, during the "Snowball Earth" period, the Earth was believed to have been covered in ice from pole to pole. Since that time, the Earth has warmed.
3. During the time of the dinosaurs, which spanned around 180 million years until about 65 million years ago, temperatures were largely warmer. So, since that time, the Earth has cooled.
4. Since the last ice age (around 12-20 thousand years ago), the Earth has warmed.
5. Since the Medieval Warming Period (around 800–1300 AD), when the Vikings were the terror of Europe and Greenland was actually green, the Earth has cooled.
6. Since the mini-ice age (around 1350-1850 AD), when the glaciers advanced, crop failures increased, deaths from epidemics and plague were common and Washington crossed an ice-choked Delaware river, the Earth has warmed.
7. Since around 1998, the Earth climate has stayed pretty flat and maybe even cooled a little bit.
Of course there are many other instances of cyclical climatic periods such as the ones above that could be added to this list. But the point is that the Earth's climate has always been in a state of change. It always has, and it always will. So no one should be surprised to discover that the Earth's climate continues to change at the present time.
Clearly, climate change is normal and natural on the planet Earth.
Can you explain how climate changes occurred in the past? And then explain what 'natural' forcings you think have caused the warming especially in the last 50 years? And provide the research to back up your opinions?
Because all you are basically saying is that there has been climate changes in the past- which is a no-brainer.
BTW, Greenland wasn't actually 'green' during the so-called medieval warming period, and the "earth's climate" has not "stayed pretty flat flat or even cooled since 1998." Some of your other statements are not quite correct as well. Where are you getting this sort of simplistic misinformation from?
With regard to the science of climate change, the premise of advocates states that release of carbon into the atmosphere through the burning of fossil fuels drives the change. Therefore, the level of fossil fuel consumption must be reversed, if not halted outright, in order to return the planet's climate to its normal state.
What is the normal state of planet earth? Is the earth normal when covered with the glaciers that flattened the Great Plains of North America? Should the mass of ice that, by melting, created the Grand Canyon exist in the earth's normal state?
What is earth's normal temperature? Is it the average global temperature in 1750, before the dawn of the Industrial Age? Is it the average global temperature before man discovered how to recreate fire, thereby releasing all of the carbon captured in felled tree branches into the atmosphere? Is the correct average that of the Cretaceous period when dinosaurs roamed?
How was the average temperature of earth measured and recorded before thermometers and their predecessors, thermoscopes, were invented around the time of Galileo? Assuming global temperatures were recorded, how does the accuracy and scale of earlier instruments compare to the measures of today's satellites?
According to the Wikipedia geologic time scale, the level of carbon dioxide in earth's atmosphere during the Cretaceous period was close to today's level, whereas the level in the preceding Jurassic period was four to five times higher and the level during the Cambrian period was 25 to 30 times higher. Why is today's level considered normal? Was the average temperature during the Jurassic and Cambrian periods proportionally higher than the average temperature during the Cretaceous period and today?
All of this science forms the basis of my skepticism. Why are today's climate and CO2 level considered normal? Why, given the earth's history of CO2 level fluctuation, is man's use of oil and coal blamed for any perceived increase in global average temperature or CO2 levels? Who determined that CO2 levels are the cause of increased temperatures and not a consequence of such a rise? How, given the earth's history, is it now government's responsibility to maintain a normal earth temperature?
So, call me a denier. Proclaim my ignorance. Just answer this: how is man to blame for any fluctuation in earth's temperature or in any corresponding measured level of atmospheric CO2 levels, given the scientific examination of earth's historical temperature and CO2 level?
all excellent questions, that wont be answered by the warming cultists because it is their belief that man is the cause of all our problems, as is the technology that man has created. and if only man would give up the technology, and give up on industry, and give up all his wealth, then everything will be just fine.
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