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It is a strategy that has proven highly effective, far more so than the alternative methods that have floundered badly under Republicans. Republican methods do more damage to OUR country, decimate the living hell out of OUR economy, kill far more of OUR people, and make matters WORSE for everybody.
As usual, the President's use of drones, is the superior choice, the superior strategy. I think the use of them should be greatly expanded. The only change I would make is to add the capability that if a drone goes down and is captured, it disintegrates or self-destructs.
Obama's drone program is highly effective?
Please elaborate on this highly effectiveness.
States that Obama has droned:
#1 ISIS - not effective
#2 Yemen - a cluster "mess"
#3 Libya - CNN today called it a "disintegrating state"
#4 Somalia - chaos
#5 Pakistan - angered by US, has asked US to stop droning as too many citizens are dying
#6 Iraq - best case for effectiveness minus the areas lost to ISIS???
#7 Afghanistan - Get ready for ISIS the sequel?
Do you think numbers 1-7 are more or less chaotic today than on Obama's 1st day in office?
Obama has dramatically escalated the use of drones since taking office. Using more drones, bombing more countries, creating more foreign drone bases, and killing more civilians by drones than Bush was.
We have killed 1,147 civilians in order to kill 41 terrorist leaders. Is it acceptable to have that ratio? Is this creating more terrorists?
How many hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians were killed in the war of choice launched by "He Who Must Not Be Named?" Were you here crying and wringing your hands over all of them? Nope, you were cheer leading and admonishing us that it was unpatriotic not to back our president when we were at war.
I don't like the drone program, but it is vastly preferable to getting our soldiers mired in the Middle East again, returning maimed or in body bags, which is the Republican's preference. Your boy's folly created the situation to begin with, so don't whine because he left his mess for the next guy to have to deal with.
All Obama has done is expand Bush's foreign policy of interventions that are often detrimental to U.S. interests. Notice it is not working any better.
I think you are assuming that Obama (or Bush) has a policy.
Probably what you are seeing is the result of innumerable meetings where various flavors of executive staff and professional military present options. Obama, being about half bright but evidently gifted at this kind of thing, chooses something from column A and something from column B. Hilarity ensues.
I can't say that the modern version of choosing Presidents leads you to great, or even average, thinkers. The current model of mass media boosted talking heads, especially when the talent pool can be drawn from people with extremely little real experience, can give you almost random results.
Short version: Blame some particularly convincing faceless bureaucrat for this President's foreign policy. Hopefully it's not Valerie Jarrett.
How many hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians were killed in the war of choice launched by "He Who Must Not Be Named?" Were you here crying and wringing your hands over all of them? Nope, you were cheer leading and admonishing us that it was unpatriotic not to back our president when we were at war.
I don't like the drone program, but it is vastly preferable to getting our soldiers mired in the Middle East again, returning maimed or in body bags, which is the Republican's preference. Your boy's folly created the situation to begin with, so don't whine because he left his mess for the next guy to have to deal with.
You are such a liar.
Show me where I admonished anyone for being unpatriotic not to back our president during the Iraq War. You can't, because you are lying with a strawman argument.
The Iraq War was a mistake. (Has Hillary addressed her mistake and do Democrats even care if Hillary 'war hawk' Clinton does?) Is Obama's drone war a mistake or being implemented poorly? You are diverting away from this? Are you diverting, because you agree with me, but can't admit it?
Perhaps you are too afraid to admit Obama is capable of making a mistake. You do realize that I oppose Bush far more than the typical Democrat. I truly agree with virtually all of Candidate Obama's criticisms of Bush. Democrats on the other hand typically disagree with Candidate Obama and me, as they agree with Bush and President Obama.
Show me where I admonished anyone for being unpatriotic not to back our president during the Iraq War. You can't, because you are lying with a strawman argument.
The Iraq War was a mistake. (Has Hillary addressed her mistake and do Democrats even care if Hillary 'war hawk' Clinton does?) Is Obama's drone war a mistake or being implemented poorly? You are diverting away from this? Are you diverting, because you agree with me, but can't admit it?
Perhaps you are too afraid to admit Obama is capable of making a mistake. You do realize that I oppose Bush far more than the typical Democrat. I truly agree with virtually all of Candidate Obama's criticisms of Bush. Democrats on the other hand typically disagree with Candidate Obama and me, as they agree with Bush and President Obama.
Well, good for you. But most of your rightwing buddies were doing everything I said in my previous post. Republicans were cheering Bush on in his war of choice, and calling any of us who objected unpatriotic. You can pretend otherwise, but you know it's true.
The Iraq War wasn't "a mistake" it was an egregious and unprovoked invasion and occupation of a sovereign nation which opened the door to the problems we are facing right now. I've already stated that I don't like the drone program, but I like sending our soldiers over there to be maimed and killed in a war they can't win even less.
Bush created a colossal mess and left Obama to try to clean it up. I'm thankful Obama's remedy doesn't include more boots on the ground. I make no apologies for that.
Good to see there are still some here, both Lib and Con alike, that believe in fighting the terrorists and when possible not putting our young men and women in harms way. Well done.
Well, good for you. But most of your rightwing buddies were doing everything I said in my previous post. Republicans were cheering Bush on in his war of choice, and calling any of us who objected unpatriotic. You can pretend otherwise, but you know it's true.
The Iraq War wasn't "a mistake" it was an egregious and unprovoked invasion and occupation of a sovereign nation which opened the door to the problems we are facing right now. I've already stated that I don't like the drone program, but I like sending our soldiers over there to be maimed and killed in a war they can't win even less.
Bush created a colossal mess and left Obama to try to clean it up. I'm thankful Obama's remedy doesn't include more boots on the ground. I make no apologies for that.
Look here.
You responded with a lie, claiming that I personally did something that I didn't. I point out that your point is BS. And now you appear to be distorting again by implying that I am saying no republicans attacked democrats as unpatriotic over the Iraq War. Certainly some did.
However, most Democrat Senators like Hillary voted for this "egregious and unprovoked invasion and occupation of a sovereign nation" and yet Democrats have seemingly anointed Hillary, so it perhaps isn't that big of a mistake - no?
Does dramatically escalating the drone program, which potentially kills thousands of civilians create more terrorists and anti-US resentment in the Muslim world? Iran will have drones soon. What precedent are we setting as Obama ignores more and more countries telling him not to violate their air space to spy, fly through, and bomb?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon
If we have in fact killed potentially all told thousands of civilians under Obama's drones in the process...are we creating more terrorists and resentment to the US?
Why the obsession with drones? We reportedly also killed thousands with manned bombing missions. The "creating more terrorists and resentment to the US" ship sailed a long time ago.
Why the obsession with drones? We reportedly also killed thousands with manned bombing missions. The "creating more terrorists and resentment to the US" ship sailed a long time ago.
Drones are the primary use of current bombing. It has expanded under Obama. It also allows the Obama fan base to claim there are no wars as drones seem mystical to them.
Think about it. Obama can increase drone strikes 6 fold and roughly double the countries we are bombing...yet because it is drones the Obama groupies claim that he is not a Bush that there are no new wars that he has reduced wars...ignoring the massive Afghanistan escalation of ground troops under Obama.
Speaking of which, did you know the White House website lies about troop levels in Afghanistan? They pretend the December 2009 Troop surge under Obama was under Bush...so they can have a nice little graph that shows a downward trend. Sheep don't mind.
Drones are the primary use of current bombing. It has expanded under Obama. It also allows the Obama fan base to claim there are no wars as drones seem mystical to them.
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That's an interesting point that I hadn't thought of.
To the hoi polloi, 'drones' are somehow more moral than running a B-52 over an area with accurate munitions. There's a rather clinical and clean angle to the whole thing.
In the final analysis, you should be after desired results, and I don't see worthwhile side effects from a wash-rinse-repeat of SIGINT + drones.
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