Is Obama's Drone War Worth It? (independent, invasion, dictators, terrorists)

[dv1033]

Originally Posted by Ohio1803

You know Hillary as a senator voted in favor of the idiotic Iraq War in 2003, and has supported more interventions into Libya, Syria, etc...

Hillary in a pro interventionist war hawk, the same as Mc Cain or Graham. Obama has joined this group for the most part by launching needless interventions by the U.S. into Libya, Syria, Yemen, and Iraq.

Obama and Bush are both liars, and did not keep a lot of what they promised. A lot of what Obama promised, such as being transparent, was something he could have done a lot of on his own without congress but chose not to.

It is still the Bush Administration's wars. Our policy as a nation has been to intervene in foreign affairs for the past 60 years, so I'm not sure what your point is. Are people claiming Hillary is some sort of pacifist?

I agree about Obama's transparency, that was nothing but populism, like most of his campaign. I just don't see what the big deal is with Obama that warrents such complaining.

[Aunt Maude]

Originally Posted by burdell

And drones aren't as accurate with their munitions as B-52s are?

Have anything to back that up?

Or do you just have a strange belief it's somehow more 'moral' to put Americans at risk to accomplish the same thing?

I would guess that they are roughly the same, although obviously the B-52 can carry a lot more per trip. (Hang on, I just looked it up...one of the standard laser guided bombs can be carried ten at a time on a B-52...I expect there is one per Predator)

How many bomber air crews have been lost in Afghanistan?

In any case, obviously the public finds bombing brown people more palatable if it's done via remote control, whether it's a good idea or not is another matter.

The interesting variant of all is will be battlefield robots, although I don't know if they will have chainsaw arms or merely some sort of rifle and grenade throwers. It'll be the perfect counter insurgency weapon if you simple don't care a whit about improving the place.

[Boris347]

Originally Posted by michiganmoon

Obama has dramatically escalated the use of drones since taking office. Using more drones, bombing more countries, creating more foreign drone bases, and killing more civilians by drones than Bush was.

We have killed 1,147 civilians in order to kill 41 terrorist leaders. Is it acceptable to have that ratio? Is this creating more terrorists?

What kind of precedent are we setting as more and more countries tell the US to stop flying drones over their country and we ignore them? Keep in mind more countries will have drones in the near future.

Bush killed over 4000 or our Troops, without Drones, and about 200,000 or more civilians. And not many Terrorists doing it. How acceptable was that? He also was the Major Recruiter for Terrorists, by using torture, rendition, abusing prisoners, and allowing Mercenaries to murder civilians. Osama considered Bush and Cheney as Honorary Al Qaeda Officers.

Drones are good. They kill Terrorists without Boots on the Ground, which is what Republicans want.

[burdell]

Originally Posted by burdell

Absolutely!

Putting fewer Americans in harm's way is unquestionably a good thing.

Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter

It is not "unquestionably a good thing".

There are any number of American's who willing serve in harm's way for the greater good. I talk to many of them on a weekly, sometimes daily basis. They don't want to die, but they are willing to carry out missions with that potential to help make the U.S. and world a safer place.

That's ludicrous!

No, excuse me, it's unquestionably ludicrous to say putting fewer Americans in harm's way isn't unquestionably a good thing!

No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. _____ George S. Patton

[burdell]

Originally Posted by Aunt Maude

I would guess that they are roughly the same, although obviously the B-52 can carry a lot more per trip. (Hang on, I just looked it up...one of the standard laser guided bombs can be carried ten at a time on a B-52...I expect there is one per Predator)

The Predator carries 2 Hellfire missiles. But to compare the two fairly you'd have to also consider initial cost, operating costs including maintenance, etc.[/quote]

Originally Posted by Aunt Maude

How many bomber air crews have been lost in Afghanistan?

How many?

[Boris347]

Originally Posted by michiganmoon

Some of the best propaganda for terrorist groups are the thousands of dead civilians at the hands of Barack "Nobel Peace Prize Winner" Obama's drones.

That's Bull. That was the Bush era, not Obamas. George created all those Terrorists by invasion, torture, rendition, murder, using Mercenaries to murder civilians, and murdering and abusing prisoners in prisons.

Obama has reversed those opinions in a lot of cases, and is rebuilding the US, in the eyes of the World. The polls show it, and yes, he did win the Nobel Prize. Its obvious your just looking for bashing material, but it isn't there. Guess you just have to hate him like every one else, with no facts.

[Boris347]

Originally Posted by Ohio1803

All Obama has done is expand Bush's foreign policy of interventions that are often detrimental to U.S. interests. Notice it is not working any better.

Nah, Obama is not out there invading Countries based on lies, torturing people, letting Mercenaries kill civilians, abusing prisoners, nor has he killed 4000 Troops in a War he lied to start. He is negotiating, with Other Countries, not invading them, and is killing Terrorists without losing Troops. Working a LOT better.

[Boris347]

Originally Posted by michiganmoon

Obama's drone program is highly effective?

Please elaborate on this highly effectiveness.

States that Obama has droned:
#1 ISIS - not effective
#2 Yemen - a cluster "mess"
#3 Libya - CNN today called it a "disintegrating state"
#4 Somalia - chaos
#5 Pakistan - angered by US, has asked US to stop droning as too many citizens are dying
#6 Iraq - best case for effectiveness minus the areas lost to ISIS???
#7 Afghanistan - Get ready for ISIS the sequel?

Do you think numbers 1-7 are more or less chaotic today than on Obama's 1st day in office?

Most of that is "Fallout" from the Bush Years, that Obama dealt with. ISIS is a Syrian result. ISIS in Iraq is a Bush result. Libya is not our problem. Somalia is not our problem. Pakistan harbors Terrorists, and who cares what they think. Afghanistan can rot.

1 to 7 is all results of Bush years ...

[michiganmoon]

Originally Posted by dv1033

LOL. It's cute you've already made up names for Hillary. It's the Bush Administration's Iraq and Afganhistan war, deal with it.

Is Hillary a war hawk? Don't lie. Bush gets credit along with everyone who voted for it...includes Hillary. Obama owns the Afghanistan surge.

Originally Posted by dv1033

So are you blaming the UN or Bill? What's your point?

Bill gets part of the credit for it. You just choose to overlook those fatalities and then reassign the blame for partisan reasons when you are forced to confront the facts.

Originally Posted by dv1033

You are extremely naive and disingenuous about politics or you just simply hold the opposition to a higher standard than you do your candidates/politicians. I think it's the latter. Do you hold Bush Jr accountable for all the campaign promises he broke and direction his two terms took? Bush Jr was going to reform education, how'd that end up?

You are a liar. So typical of Obama groupies.

I hold Bush accountable for his actions. Bush was a poor president. I have said it countless times on here. I hold Bush accountable for being a bad president. Bush and Ted Kennedy's educational reforms were poorly done.

Originally Posted by dv1033

Lastly, we have a checks and balance system that prevents most campaign promises happeneing. You are naive if you think Obama had the ability to do to accomplish everything or most of everything given Republican opposition and opposition within his own party.

So you use your brain?

I gave you examples of where Obama could have acted alone without congress and without anyone to fulfill campaign promises and the pathological liar chose to break the promise. And then when confronted with this fact you either lie or you divert. Your emotional attachment to Obama has clouded your brain.

Let's go with 1 issue at a time...since you will probably hide from the facts:

It is 100% Obama's fault that he broke his promise to wait 5 days to sign a bill into law - and that he breaks it consistently. How is this anyone but Obama's fault.

The Obameter: Allow five days of public comment before signing bills | PolitiFact

If you have integrity and a brain you will admit that I am right on this point...then we can move on to the next issue where Obama freely chose to break his own campaign promise without congress standing in the way.

Originally Posted by dv1033

Again, I hope you give as much scrutiny to all candidates, just not the ones you dislike.

The irony is...this comment applies to you and not me. We both admit that Bush was a bad president and you hide from facts about Obama and divert.

You are the one cowarding away from the facts with diversions.

For the good of the country, may you one day wake up and use your brain and start to think.

[Boris347]

Originally Posted by michiganmoon

You are such a liar.

Show me where I admonished anyone for being unpatriotic not to back our president during the Iraq War. You can't, because you are lying with a strawman argument.

The Iraq War was a mistake. (Has Hillary addressed her mistake and do Democrats even care if Hillary 'war hawk' Clinton does?) Is Obama's drone war a mistake or being implemented poorly? You are diverting away from this? Are you diverting, because you agree with me, but can't admit it?

Perhaps you are too afraid to admit Obama is capable of making a mistake. You do realize that I oppose Bush far more than the typical Democrat. I truly agree with virtually all of Candidate Obama's criticisms of Bush. Democrats on the other hand typically disagree with Candidate Obama and me, as they agree with Bush and President Obama.

Obama is doing a good job, and I hope the next Democrat President does as well. I hope they increase the number of Drones, and expand their targets to other Terrorist allowing Nations.