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Old 04-30-2015, 12:51 PM
 
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Has this been tried in any other countries?


Hong Kong Welfare: Work More, Get More
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Old 04-30-2015, 04:56 PM
 
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We do something that at certain marginal incomes works the same way in the form of the EITC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earned_income_tax_credit

Top couple paragraphs for those who don't like to click through to links:

Quote:
The United States federal earned income tax credit or earned income credit (EITC or EIC) is a refundable tax credit for low to moderate income working individuals and couples—particularly those with children. The amount of EITC benefit depends on a recipient’s income and number of children. For a person or couple to claim one or more persons as their qualifying child(ren), the relationship, age, and shared residency requirements must be met, as well as some other requirements. In the 2013 tax year, working families with children that have annual incomes below $37,870 to $51,567 (depending on the number of dependent children) may be eligible for the federal EITC. Workers without children that have incomes below about $14,340 ($19,680 for a married couple) can receive a very small EITC benefit. U.S. tax forms 1040EZ, 1040A, or 1040 can be used to claim EITC without qualifying children. To claim the credit with qualifying children, 1040A or 1040 must be used along with Schedule EITC attached.[1]

EIC phases in slowly, has a medium-length plateau, and then phases out more slowly than it phased in. And since the credit phases out at 21% (more than one qualifying child) or 16% (one qualifying child), it is always preferable to have one more dollar of actual salary or wages (although technically, since the EIC table moves by fifty dollar increments, it's always preferable to have an extra fifty-dollar increment of salary or wages).

For tax year 2013, the maximum EITC benefit for a single person or couple filing without qualifying children is $487. The maximum EITC with one qualifying child is $3,250, with two children it is $5,372, and with three or more qualifying children it is $6,044.[2][3][4] These amounts are indexed annually for inflation. On December 4, 2014, the The Atlantic reported that the EITC will cost about $70 billion in 2015.[5]

The earned income tax credit has been part of political debates in the United States regarding whether raising the minimum wage or increasing EITC is a better idea.[6][7][8]
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Old 04-30-2015, 05:39 PM
 
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The EITC in no way makes up for the things that you lose while transitioning up. Up until you hit about hmmm 50-60k the more you work often the less you have. Varies on where you live.

Its one of the issues I have with our current programs.
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Old 04-30-2015, 05:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
The EITC in no way makes up for the things that you lose while transitioning up. Up until you hit about hmmm 50-60k the more you work often the less you have. Varies on where you live.

Its one of the issues I have with our current programs.
Yes, for people on the full suit of government programs you are completely correct. OP was wondering if a similar program existed anywhere and the EITC here does fit the bill so I thought I'd bring it up. Wouldn't surprise me if it even inspired their program. It still doesn't make additional marginal income life improving for everyone within the context of our programs as a whole though.
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Old 04-30-2015, 06:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ALackOfCreativity View Post
Yes, for people on the full suit of government programs you are completely correct. OP was wondering if a similar program existed anywhere and the EITC here does fit the bill so I thought I'd bring it up. Wouldn't surprise me if it even inspired their program. It still doesn't make additional marginal income life improving for everyone within the context of our programs as a whole though.
The EITC applies to only folks with children as such those folks receive a great deal of help at the lower levels that has specific cut off points. Free lunchs, subsidized health care, etc etc etc. It adds up a lot and transitioning through them when I was younger always made me feel like no matter what I did I wasn't getting ahead. literally doubling my income I was actually ending up with less. It wasn't until I hit about 70K that felt like it went the other way. But thats a subjective feeling, I have no idea what the specifics are these days.
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Old 04-30-2015, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
The EITC applies to only folks with children as such those folks receive a great deal of help at the lower levels that has specific cut off points. Free lunchs, subsidized health care, etc etc etc. It adds up a lot and transitioning through them when I was younger always made me feel like no matter what I did I wasn't getting ahead. literally doubling my income I was actually ending up with less. It wasn't until I hit about 70K that felt like it went the other way. But thats a subjective feeling, I have no idea what the specifics are these days.
^ Very close to how I feel.

The salary ranges may vary from rural Iowa to Seattle metro but the so-called "middle class" is in no-man's land in terms of benefitting from government programs among other things.

This country has increasingly incentivized being dirt poor or filthy rich. What a messed up society we've created. I don't blame anyone, rich or poor, who tries to "play the system". There is no honor among thieves...and that's who we pay our tribute to everyday no matter who you are.
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Old 04-30-2015, 07:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
^ Very close to how I feel.

The salary ranges may vary from rural Iowa to Seattle metro but the so-called "middle class" is in no-man's land in terms of benefitting from government programs among other things.

This country has increasingly incentivized being dirt poor or filthy rich. What a messed up society we've created. I don't blame anyone, rich or poor, who tries to "play the system". There is no honor among thieves...and that's who we pay our tribute to everyday no matter who you are.
Even better from 70-120 The taxation starts to hurt....and you don't make enough to truly take advantage of tax loopholes. If you're smart you get some, but its still a slow slog. Its why our middle class is getting crushed. And job security? Thats a hilarious concept these days for most of us.
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Old 05-01-2015, 04:58 AM
 
Location: Purgatory
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And for those who missed it, again, the Earned Income Tax Credit is ONLY for those with kids. (And don't even get me started on the dependent deductions for kids.) Single and childless always get screwed.
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Old 05-01-2015, 10:53 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Utopian Slums View Post
And for those who missed it, again, the Earned Income Tax Credit is ONLY for those with kids. (And don't even get me started on the dependent deductions for kids.) Single and childless always get screwed.
I dont know, I suspect it helped you a lot when you were a child. Everyone seems to miss that. Unless of course you were a orphan, and a ward of the state. I suppose then you'd be right, those folks do kinda get hosed.
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Old 05-02-2015, 10:16 PM
 
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How much of a free market model have some of you considered Hong Kong to be?

This seems to show that even in a more free market economy like Hong Kong's some amount of safety net programs are needed.
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