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Which wouldn't be a bad idea, because homeschooled children perform in the 85th to 90th percentile on most test. I'm all for more homeschooling and perhaps more vouchers for parents that want to go that route. How much does it cost to homeschool a child?
I'll tie this into the thread since it's somewhat off-topic
I think many factors play a role in a child's education. On the state/city forums on here I see a huge emphasis placed on the individual school or school system, but I think that only plays one part. I think genetics plays some role, as I grew up in a family of 4 children and you can see distinct characteristcs of both of my parents and aunts/uncles in each of us... where some were extremely strong in languages and art, and others were strong in math and science.
Another factor is the parent's expectations... in some cultures I see parents rushing their kids to get a job to help with the family because it serves an immediate need, while in others they are willing to suffer for their children to get a good education and see a long term gain. From my personal education I saw the result of kids that were pushed to do well... most parents did it within reason and got results, others pushed way too hard and had kids that broke down... but overwhelmingly the ones that didn't push had kids that were C students. Some students with lax parents saw their future and tried to fix it, but often times it happened halfway through highschool when it was almost too late.
The other factor is the actual parental involvement. Not every family can afford for one parent to be home when the child gets off the bus and does homework. Some have parents working multiple jobs just to make ends meet and don't have time to push their kids or help them. Even if they are making ends meet, do they have the money to invest in tutors and supplementary learning for their children to excel?
But back to your question... what does it cost? Depends on your family. For mine it would cost a lot of money because my wife or I would need to quit our jobs, and we make a good salary right now. We don't do work that really is conducive to part-time jobs, and I wouldn't want to push our daugher to be a self learner. And we definitely don't make enough to hire a nanny that is a teacher either
There is evidence that they simply have a higher average IQ, as a group. This, of course, does not explain the whole thing, but it certainly doesn't hurt.
For a while, I was a teachers-assistant at a city school in the Northeast.
I had a chance to mentor and assist with the gifted class.
Of a student-body that was about 40% black, 40% white, 10% Hispanic and 10% Asian, the Asians were grossly overrepresented in the gifted classes while there wasn't a single black child in the entire program... Kind of odd, given that a) the school was 40% black and b) these kids all went to the same school, had the same early-education teachers and had exposure to the exact same things.
However much of it is genetic, that's up for debate. There is an undeniable genetic component to human physical performance that often times, can be buttressed by the generational sharing of knowledge and skills (ala Archie Manning, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning- all physical freaks of nature that so happened to have access to world class coaching from an early age). That, no one denies. Very few deny that certain intellectual gifts can be passed on as well. The recently deceased Bobby Fischer had a father who was a Physicist, known for his spectacular ability for spatial reasoning. Think it was just a coincidence that his son showed a similar ability to the .00000001 percentile?
It's only when we get into the issue of collective performance are we supposed to ignore this dynamic, and look for "something else" to explain away the unfortunate truth that exists right before our very eyes.
James Watson, the Nobel Prize winner (back when they actually awarded the Nobel Prize for brilliant achievements rather than to reward proponents of certain social policies) who unraveled the basic framework of DNA, was pretty clear about his opinions on the matter.
Quote:
"all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours — whereas all the testing says not really."
Quote:
"there is no firm reason to anticipate that the intellectual capacities of peoples geographically separated in their evolution should prove to have evolved identically. Our wanting to reserve equal powers of reason as some universal heritage of humanity will not be enough to make it so."
... yeah, I'm aware of many convoluted "counter studies" that everyone rushes to embrace and award accolades, since they tell us what we want to hear- it's when you examine them a little deeper does it become apparent that junk science and tacit ignoring of certain key facts abounds.
In short, I believe that any culture, race or society can produce a genius of epic proportions. It's when you measure the mean that things are clearly not "equal" between us. So, why Asians? Who knows. Maybe they drew the long-straw when mother-nature was handing out the brain genetics. I don't find them to be a particularly creative people, but they're undeniably superb with logic and reason... and it must be pure hell to be a smart black kid who has to endure that cultures view on academia.
When I lived in Sacramento I had many Asian friends. Plus I lived in a neighborhood that was heavily Asian. I can say without a doubt Asian students do well because they STUDY HARD. Most Asian families insisted their kids study long after school was over. Plus many actually paid good cash money to send their kids to school on Saturday as well.
In an interesting Chicken or the Egg scenario, races that have higher average IQs (Ashkenazi Jews, certain types of Asians, etc) also tend to be the same ones that value education and place a higher cultural emphasis on it compared to races that have lower average IQs... hmmmm..... golly.... I wonder why?
One argument I heard was that in other countries that perform really well, they lack creativity. They test very well because they simply memorize answers very well. In the US educational system there more of an emphasis on not just learning facts or math but how to use them... ...But teaching real world application rather than hard drilling on math and science tests seem like a better method. Any one will tell you that test scores do not accuratley portray intelligence...
...Perhaps creativity this is a reason that Asians come flocking to the US for higher education...
...I heard they can memorize entire books yet cannot apply their knowledge to their job...
This is all feel-good nonsense. Asians are, on average, superior in scholastics because of two reasons:
1. On average they are much more self-motivated and harder-working than their US counterparts. This is primarily due to fierce competition to get into the best higher-level schools, coupled with fast-moving and intensive coursework.
2. Education is culturally emphasized and teachers are revered and important figures both to their students and to the public in general. Students are placed in a high-pressure environment where they are expected to be courteous, professional, but also hardworking and they respond by rising to the challenge.
The result is a generally superior student emerging from industrialized Asian countries, with Taiwan and Japan being at the forefront. However, the drawbacks include a very strong inclination toward social indoctrination (and socialism in general), increased incidence of stress-induced physchosis, and and a correspondingly high suicide rate.
I know asians in "creative" non-technical fields who's mathematical education ceased after HIGHSCHOOL, yet they were more competent in mathematics and science than 1st and 2nd year US Ivy-League technical undergraduate majors. Not only that, but these asian artisans were able to recall and apply advanced principles of mathematics, chemistry, and physics despite not having studied or used the information for nearly 10 years. When I compared their level of technical knowledge to those of their US-educated peers (many of whom could barely recall basic principles let alone geometery, algebra, or calculus), the disparity was truly shocking.
The good news in all this is that there are advanced learning courses (AP/honors) in place within the US public school system which will provide a pathway for parity with the products of eastern educational systems for motivated students. A student who takes every available AP/honors course and consistently scores "A" averages in these courses can complete their Highschool education on par with any other student in the world and enter institutes of higher learning with the ability to keep up with their foreign counterparts.
The bad news is that US students must maintain motivation despite the negative influences of the prevalent "know-nothing" popular culture entrenched in the US in general. Non-AP courses are considered "normal" and intelligence is not looked upon as a desirable trait in influential social circles within schools. Unfortunately, this aspect of US culture has a great deal of momentum and instituting a change will be exceedingly difficult. Therefore, unfortunately, we who recognize the deficiency of US culture must look to our own children and do what we can to counteract the effects of the negative aspects of our society.
As for the genetic pre-disposition bunk; that is the same tired old argument that has caused the collapse of countless governments and businesses based solely upon lineage. In my personal experience, it is quite obvious that the offspring of wildly successful people often have few actual talents of their own, being generally spoiled with few requirements or obstacles placed in their path which they need to exercise their creativity, motivation, and intelligence to overcome. This lack of mental exercise often yeilds no-talent hacks who coast along on their parents laurals, claiming their underling's/organization's creations as their own, for as long as possible until they've driven their family's business or empire to complete ruin.
While there may or may not be some genetic component to the determination of scholastic achievement, this aspect is miniscule compared to the effects of upbringing, culture, and society. Because studies on the matter cannot yield actionable incontrovertable proof, it is not even worth wasting time debating. The result that invariably comes from focusing on the genetic differences between races is some level of recommendation of separating the races into thinker, laborer, etc classes. That solution has been tried in the past without success, and we have already wasted enough time, treasure, and blood learning the lesson that near-equality is preferable to inequality. Were it not so, then history would be quite different. So, with this in mind, please forgive my virulent negative reaction to the backwards idiocy of a handful of lunatics who are willfully blind to the lessons of the past and continue to insist that we should consider race-based social engineering.
This is all feel-good nonsense. Asians are, on average, superior in scholastics because of two reasons:
1. On average they are much more self-motivated and harder-working than their US counterparts. This is primarily due to fierce competition to get into the best higher-level schools, coupled with fast-moving and intensive coursework.
2. Education is culturally emphasized and teachers are revered and important figures both to their students and to the public in general. Students are placed in a high-pressure environment where they are expected to be courteous, professional, but also hardworking and they respond by rising to the challenge.
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I found this "right on"--splendidly "put", and I agree. I once heard a discussion about the difference between the HEAVY emphasis on sports among most American colleges and universities, and the VERY small, peripheral part they play in Japanese academia. Though the Japanese are certainly no "couch potatoes", the fact is that their culture makes very little connection between "college education" and "sports". They have the "strange" notion that the purpose of higher learning is to LEARN things (imagine that). Want to participate in sports? Fine--do so AFTER course work, more-or-less on your own--but don't look for any huge amount of money or infrastruture to be devoted to 'sports'--not in your college. College is for gaining knowledge.
Contrast THAT attitude with the multi-million dollar "industry" around ALL facets of American college athletics...it almost seems like the MAIN FOCUS, in some cases..
Students do commit suicide because of bad grades. On the other side of that coin, they don't have "Columbine" type mass murders in the schools.
At least we only have the problem of one twisted person per group of deaths as opposed to several mentally twisted people. And not to be ridiculous but these mass murders are sparse enough to point out that the occurrences at Virginia Tech... well need I go further? In my opinion this mass murder was the result of shear jealousy of the American way, why did he have to work so hard and yet people who don't work as hard are able to enjoy life more than he has/is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl
The American education system is losing ground.
Traditional science and mathematics schools are not as good as they once were and alternatives are being looked at. European schools are picking up attendance.
Yikes, are you seriously talking about college/university level schooling?!? If so I can't come up with a single engineering school that this is happening to. I would be interested in your data, thanks.
I see and converse with a lot of off-the-boat Asians here at my school, I have yet to meet one I did not like. However sometimes I wish I could communicate with some of them a little better to show them that life is not about a 7 Series BMW and a 500k house... I see a lot of them go to school like they're robots, that has everything to do with where they came from and what they are taught. On the other hand their upbringing has trained them to be very polite and trustworthy people.
I'm at lunch and don't have the time to search for scientific/mathematics oriented rankings at the moment, but the links I provided will give you the resources you need to get a deeper understanding of rating changes over the past few years.
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