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Old 08-31-2015, 06:50 AM
 
Location: Long Island
57,242 posts, read 26,182,129 times
Reputation: 15632

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You have to love jobs in the public sector, well at least they shortened the time for a ruling to 90 days, why cases like this previously took years escape me. Imagine needing to inform an adult working in the private sector that he needs to be on time for work.

I do fault the district for waiting this long, no one wants to be the bad guy.

Quote:

NEW BRUNSWICK, N.J. (AP) — An elementary school teacher has been allowed to
keep his job even though he was late for work 111 times over a two-year
period.

In a decision filed Aug. 19, an arbitrator rejected an attempt by the
Roosevelt Elementary School to fire 15-year veteran Arnold Anderson from his
$90,000-a-year job, saying he was entitled to progressive discipline.

Anderson was late 46 times in the most recent school year through March 20
and 65 times in the previous school year, the arbitrator said. But the
arbitrator criticized Anderson's claim that the quality of his teaching
outweighed his tardiness.

.................................................. .....................................
The arbitrator found that the district failed to provide Anderson with due process by providing him with a formal notice of inefficiency or by giving him 90 days to correct his failings before terminating his employment.

New Jersey teacher who was late for work 111 times keeps job - US News
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Old 08-31-2015, 06:56 AM
 
Location: Salisbury,NC
16,759 posts, read 8,209,554 times
Reputation: 8537
The failure of Management to properly document the issues led to this result. Poor management is the answer here and they need to learn how to document each stage.

Public sector (as well as private sector) employees can be fired as long as the management know's how to do it.
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Old 08-31-2015, 07:05 AM
 
45,214 posts, read 26,424,445 times
Reputation: 24966
I think the rule book says 112 times before they can be fired lol
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Old 08-31-2015, 07:20 AM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
4,677 posts, read 5,765,142 times
Reputation: 2981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
I think the rule book says 112 times before they can be fired lol
It actually said 10 times, but you have to document all ten times and warn a total of three times (at 3, 7, and 9 tardies, before firing on the 10th).

This particular school had a time clock where you punch in (despite the teachers having FLSA-exempt positions), and apparently on any given day a large number of teachers are "late" by a few minutes as they wait to punch in. (Yeah, I know the next question: "Why didn't they punch in early?" Not sure for this school, but that's normally a punishable offense for teachers just like punching in late.) So, if you are not documenting and warning all the other teachers who are punching in late, and are not trying to fire them, then you now have a serious due process problem.
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Old 08-31-2015, 07:29 AM
 
4,899 posts, read 3,552,835 times
Reputation: 4471
Freaking ridiculous

But don't make assumptions about tenure or teachers union. I know teachers in the NY metro area and they get docked pay for being late and would be written up then fired. They are in as much disbelief over this as anyone else.
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Old 08-31-2015, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,717,658 times
Reputation: 20674
Teacher claims he was never late to teach in class. Most of the time he was in line waiting to punch in. Who knows?

Regardless, principal ignored the established contractual requirements for termination , written warning and 90 day notice.

Most mid- large corporations have established documented disciplinary procedures that require written warning and X days to correct deficiency or be terminated, nothing to do with organized labor.

There are reasons why mid- large corporations require HR to be involved in terminations. Their purpose is to protect the company from downstream lawsuits and make sure the i's are dotted and t's crossed before anyone is terminated.

Bottom line the principal blew it.
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Old 08-31-2015, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,717,658 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northeastah View Post
Freaking ridiculous

But don't make assumptions about tenure or teachers union. I know teachers in the NY metro area and they get docked pay for being late and would be written up then fired. They are in as much disbelief over this as anyone else.
Every public and private labor contract is different.

Had the principal followed the contract, he would have recieved a written warning and been put on a 90 day probation, whereby it would have been a clean termination had he continued to be late.
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Old 08-31-2015, 07:45 AM
 
4,899 posts, read 3,552,835 times
Reputation: 4471
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Every public and private labor contract is different.

Had the principal followed the contract, he would have recieved a written warning and been put on a 90 day probation, whereby it would have been a clean termination had he continued to be late.
A lot of people up in arms about this teacher not being canned and first thing they do is bash the unions... that's why I said what I did.
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Old 08-31-2015, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Fairfax, VA
3,826 posts, read 3,386,868 times
Reputation: 3694
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Teacher claims he was never late to teach in class. Most of the time he was in line waiting to punch in. Who knows?

Regardless, principal ignored the established contractual requirements for termination , written warning and 90 day notice.

Most mid- large corporations have established documented disciplinary procedures that require written warning and X days to correct deficiency or be terminated, nothing to do with organized labor.

There are reasons why mid- large corporations require HR to be involved in terminations. Their purpose is to protect the company from downstream lawsuits and make sure the i's are dotted and t's crossed before anyone is terminated.

Bottom line the principal blew it.
The written warning should be the in the employment contract they they sign when hired. No other documentation should be required.
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Old 08-31-2015, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Pacific NW
9,437 posts, read 7,366,346 times
Reputation: 7979
he was entitled to progressive discipline. That seems to be the liberal mindset all wrapped up in one brief sentence. I guess 'progressive discipline' means it's Ok to be a screwup and keep your job.

Even Hollywood used to show screwup professors being fired.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKT-eWMWXOE
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