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Part of the very basic instructions imparted to American military is compliance with the Code of Conduct. The Code of Conduct outlines various rules for civility between soldiers during times of war as mandated by the rules of the Geneva Convention. One of its most basic rules is that anyone who is captured, on either side, is obliged to give name, rank and serial number, but nothing else. This has become one of the most embarrassing incidents in U.S. military history. It's quite obvious there's more to it than meets the eye!.
This is a total embarrassment to the USA. I'm sure it comes from VERY HIGH up the chain of command:
It is inconceivable that you could find 10 Americans willing to surrender themselves and their equipment without a fight. It is not plausible that any young man or woman entering into the naval service would willingly kneel on the deck of a combat-capable ship.
Somebody told them to give up.
And that somebody, and the philosophy he represents, will be the death of us.
Anyway, anyone who picks "Don't give up the ship" as some sort of rousing motto should look into the actual circumstances surrounding the Shannon v. Chesapeake battle and the real costs, in life and limb, of vainglorious patriotism. For those keeping score at home, the USS Chesapeake was given up shortly after the captain's dying order.
Much to the consternation of those watching from a safe distance, who of course immediately looked around for a scapegoat. Reminds me of something, somehow...
Apart from that, the Geneva Conventions don't come into play as there's no sate of war between Iran and the US, and the "VERY HIGH UP" is pure supposition. I am not the slightest bit sorry you and Bob Lonsberry didn't get any flag-covered coffins to salute this time.
Last edited by Ibginnie; 01-24-2016 at 05:42 PM..
Reason: off topic
Part of the very basic instructions imparted to American military is compliance with the Code of Conduct. The Code of Conduct outlines various rules for civility between soldiers during times of war as mandated by the rules of the Geneva Convention. One of its most basic rules is that anyone who is captured, on either side, is obliged to give name, rank and serial number, but nothing else. This has become one of the most embarrassing incidents in U.S. military history. It's quite obvious there's more to it than meets the eye!.
This is a total embarrassment to the USA. I'm sure it comes from VERY HIGH up the chain of command:
That old name, rank, and serial number died in Vietnam. Back then, the top brass learned anyone can be broken, and requiring only those three things made it easier to get vital information from prisoners once they broke.
Nowadays, the military teaches their soldiers to resist, but to give up non-vital info in great detail when tortured. This often allows more important info they possess to be kept secret.
The Navy has never demanded not to give up the ship. Remember the Pueblo? In instances where there is no hope for saving the ship, the Captain is obliged to do his best to keep his crew alive. If surrender is his only option, then that's the one he is directed to take, with no embarrassment in it.
Of course, for armchair Admirals who have never held the power of his crew's lives in his hands, that probably means nothing at all to you. Why should it? You don't have any skin in the game at all.
But as a Navy veteran, it sure does to me. Every sailor in the fleet depends on his Captain to do his best to keep them all alive. Always has, always will. In return, every Captain depends on his crew to keep him and his officers alive as well. At sea or on shore, a crew stays tight. They all depend on each other. I say that from direct, personal experience. On shore and at sea.
If commanded, any United States Navy's sailor will fight to the death. Not for his ship. For his Captain. And for his shipmates. The ship itself is optional, as the sea is ALWAYS an enemy. If it must be given up, it is.
In this case, surrendering was the right call. All came home safe and sound, as did their boats, the very next day. And what could have been a very unpleasant little incident in a tinderbox was avoided.
It is useful to be able to talk to your frenemies and have some reason to think that you can reason with them.
I know there are people who just love the idea of all-out war, and are always looking for an excuse to fan one into flames. There could well be a reason for that someday, but an engine breakdown is not that reason.
In this case, surrendering was the right call. All came home safe and sound, as did their boats, the very next day. And what could have been a very unpleasant little incident in a tinderbox was avoided.
.
The ships did come back safe, except for the GPS that the Koreans kept (probably because the koreans spoofed the GPS to lead the 2 boats into korean water.
The men and woman came home also.....
This act was done to embarrass the US, which is fairly easy considering obuma is CiC
As for post #3, yes there was an earlier thread. Unfortunately I did not post correctly/
Location: When you take flak it means you are on target
7,646 posts, read 9,962,966 times
Reputation: 16466
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgsing
So you would be more comfortable with 10 young Americans coming home in body bags?
Yes, they bought the ticket, they take the ride.
I am sorry, under MY code of conduct, you NEVER SURRENDER, NEVER QUIT. I do not care the cost.
History is filled with people who surrendered and died. Had they fought against all odds, some would have lived. And if they died anyway, they died with honor, not on their knees. I will never live on my knees.
I'm sorry call me old fashioned.
And we should obliterate everything on that island. This isn't the first time they have been trouble.
Location: When you take flak it means you are on target
7,646 posts, read 9,962,966 times
Reputation: 16466
Quote:
Originally Posted by owl6969
there could have been another war for Americans.....
Not if we fought it correctly. One big flash, and when Iran cooled we'd have glass.
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