Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
"American"/Individualist freedom is more about being free to do as you wish, outside of harming others, without your decisions being overruled and your life intruded on. More responsibility, but more choice.
"European"/collectivist freedom is more about being free of worry and responsibility at the cost of freedom of choice. There are more rules and regulations imposed on you, more taxes, etc., but you can unload some of your worries and responsibilities on the government.
One of my favorite quotes is by Samuel Adams, where he said (paraphrasing) that colonists who preferred security over liberty should go back to England, because that's not what the U.S. is about. They wanted a place on earth free from state control, even if you were risking comfort and security.
Well, my opinion is that the use of the slogans raving about "freedom" and "individualism" and "liberty" and "self reliance" in the U.S. is a cultural characteristic, and it is cultural because the leading and dominant voices represented a cause they cherished, and that is the cause of capitalism. It is all in support of the psychology and economic and political needs of the capitalist and their success. And it sounds so good that they have succeeded in convincing most of us that we have a stake in their right to own private profit. If you eliminate that economic model and replace it with one that is truly based on government and society that is "of the people, by the people, and for the people" there is suddenly no need, and far less interest in the slogans of private profit.
Until the bill comes due for the taxpayer of average means, that is!
I think generally, right wingers think along the lines of "If I ever become rich one day, I want x freedoms."
Whereas those on the left, including in Europe, tend to think "If I ever lose my job, have an accident, or some other worst case scenario happens, I want my family and I to be free from fear and worrying about death or suffering, etc".
No, "right wingers" believe that given freedom and liberty, I have the opportunity and potential to create, build, or design whatever I can and if it is successful, I can actually make money proving a service or product that other people want, and may actually become wealthy! This used to be called "The American Dream" Those pesky, extremist righties are willing to give up safety for liberty. They believe that the risk/reward is worth it.
Side note: Has anyone ever heard of "The Canadian Dream" or "The Germany Dream" or "The Russian Dream"? Why has there only been one nation that has created such prosperity and provided its citizens with such Liberty and Freedom and protection of God give rights, that it is known as a place where anyone can achieve and live "THE AMERICAN DREAM." I'm sure it's just a fluke or something.
Those perfect angelic progressives prefer safety over liberty/freedom and happily forgo the later for the mere perception of the former. Progressives believe that safety IS freedom. That is why they would happily give up free speech if it keeps them safe from being offended by different viewpoints or opinions. Progressive are the first to cheer the government and courts determinations when they are favorable to the progressive ideology, but when the outcome is different, they blame the evil "right wingers" anyway.
The vision of America was that you didn't have to live your life based on who was in the WH, because you always knew that there were certain unalienable rights that could not be infringed upon. You knew that you had the influence over your local and state law makers, so you could know who was enacting laws that effected you and your family.
You knew that the people in DC were constrained by the Constitution to only deal with SPECIFICALLY defined issues, so you did not have to worry about someone using Executive Orders to infringe on your 2nd Amendment rights or that one political party could legislate away your freedom to purchase or not purchase a commodity and failure to do so would result in a financial penalty called a "tax."
Our framers understood that the further and further away generations moved from living the historical founding of this nation, the less they would understand what an amazing creation our Government is. How nothing like it existed on earth and nothing will ever exist like it again. Sadly, it seems that no one in our current and future generations really care about that. They are more concerned about whether their "guy" got higher ratings or whether their guy can bully the other guys better, etc.
I think most european countries are safer. i don't know exactly how the crime rates compare to the US, someone can look it up.
freedom includes living in security. if you are always afraid some nut with a gun might shoot and kill you or your kids or the police can stop you and pull you out of the car and taser you - well that is not freedom, is it?
"American"/Individualist freedom is more about being free to do as you wish, outside of harming others, without your decisions being overruled and your life intruded on.
Do you know it to be any different in European countries?
This has been good deal more polite than I thought it would be, nice job.
I'll throw in that much depends on what European country you're talking about. In Finland, Norway and Sweden you can hike, ride, kayak even camp just about anywhere in the countryside , for instance.
The "Right of Public Access" (""Allemandsretten) makes it perfectly legal to move about (almost) anywhere as long as you don't damage anything and stay away from livestock, cultivated fields, houses & gardens (obviously) etc. - in other words, common sense rules. You can even pick wild berries or mushrooms.
Is this freedom? Depends on whether you're a hiker or landowner, I guess...
The same freedom exists in the New England states on unposted land (navigable waters are public property period). Here it was a reaction by the early settlers to the restrictions on hunting in England where only wealthy landowners could hunt. For land to be legally "posted" is actually quite difficult on larger acreage. In Vermont, for example, the signs must be a certain size with certain wording, a certain distance apart on every property line, be signed by the landowner and dated with the current year, every year, and recorded by the town clerk.
I think most european countries are safer. i don't know exactly how the crime rates compare to the US, someone can look it up.
freedom includes living in security. if you are always afraid some nut with a gun might shoot and kill you or your kids or the police can stop you and pull you out of the car and taser you - well that is not freedom, is it?
Perhaps if YOU actually looked it up, then you WOULD know how we compare.
THEN you would see that with the exception of many inner cities, the US is on par with much of Europe.
THEN you wouldn't need to feel so afraid unless you actually lived in one of those inner cities.
Why has there only been one nation that has created such prosperity and provided its citizens with such Liberty and Freedom and protection of God give rights, that it is known as a place where anyone can achieve and live "THE AMERICAN DREAM." I'm sure it's just a fluke or something.
So - why does the US have lower social mobility than most other OECD countries?
European socialism spread after that Hitler thing and Khrushchev thing. But Europeans would say they are more free than we are in the U.S. because in many of those countries they are free of worrying about health care, free of worry about how they will get their kids through college, free of worry about health effects of GMO and glyphosate, free of worry about how they will survive when they're too old to work any longer, and free of laws stopping workers from organizing to petition for their interests.
Think about this: the ultimate indicator of the success of a government and the freedom of the people is found in the U.N. measure of Global Happiness survey. If we have the highest Global Happiness score in the world, little else matters. And Denmark has had the highest score for a while.
I think there's a freedom in the U.S. that is rather unique and rarely utilized today that has added to the American ideology on freedom. It started with the frontier. The notion that there was a vast wilderness to simply leave civilization and not have to take part in the culture/economy/slavery of the 9 to 5 job, dependence on stores, etc. The frontier basically shaped America's culture. The idea that a person can and should be independent and not rely on the government came out of frontier life. You were on your own on the frontier. There was no government program to help you if the hunting was poor, crops failed, or hostile people attacked you. The frontier is officially gone but there remains vast wild regions in this nation where a person with the skills and determination could still go and escape the crowds, stress and demands of society. There is no place in Western Europe where you could do so, at least not long term and legally.
There are some other freedoms I can think of. Land use laws for example. European nations tend to have extremely strict zoning/building/land use rules. The only permit I need to build on my land in northern Vermont is a septic design permit if I decide to put plumbing in. Otherwise, nothing. No zoning rules, no building codes, nothing. The next town over is completely different but here you can choose by voting with your feet what land use laws you want to live with by moving from one town or state to another. In Europe there's no escaping it. There will be strict laws regulating your property. You may not even live on it if it's in some designated green space.
Hunting. This is pretty obvious. Europe has a history of hunting being for the nobility and very wealthy only. And it remains restrictive and expensive to do so today. You can't even legally bow hunt in the UK, archery hunting is banned there. Gun control doesn't even need to be mentioned.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
