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Just giving the government a little more control over your life is what it is. Imagine how free people were 100 years ago. It must have been Heaven compared to the hell we are living now.
We "gave away" tuition decades ago. Most of the rest of the civilized world does it as well. Room and board is not an issue. And public universities should not be free to do whatever they want to squeeze the students when they are funded by the tax payers. Thats how every civilized country does it. They get a budget and they have to stick to it. Its just recently with Reaganomics and the donor class massively increasing their power and wealth that the situation is getting outrageous. Squeezing the middle class as much as possible is always on the agenda of the donor class.
You obviously never been to a University. There was a student I met who could only afford one meal per day. Paying room and board even gas was difficult for him. Yes, it's affordable if you can commute locally from you parents house. Assuming you stay with your parent and you don't pay rent. However, not everyone lives near a University. I personally opted to attend my local UC instead of a tier higher university. Had I attend that other university I would have to pay rent where staying locally I could stay with my parents and avoid paying rent.
Clinton's plan will cause tuition to go up. Nor has she explain exactly how tuition will be disburst. There are state and federal grants, but in total they don't fully cover the cost of attending a University if I remember right. University will increase their tuition and fund the extra money into research and development. The equipment we use in the wet lab was poor, but functional. A few pieces were new, but they were only new because the old equipment broke down would cost more to repair then buy a new equipment. However, in the research labs, the equipment was new. There was a new XPS equipment at a cost of 1 million dollars and in the nano lab there was another 1 million dollar piece of equipment. Personally, universities will not invest into their undergraduates. At least that is my experience going through an engineering major in a UC. It's a bit odd when your lab equipment is over 15-20 years old compared to what you see in research labs.
So you support free pre-school then from 1-5? As we all know, the first few years of a child's life is the most crucial part of development. The costs for daycare is about $15 000 -$20 000 per child. You are now claiming that you support free K-12 because they are children? Or should parents stop having children until they can pay up out-of-pocket?
No. The first stage of a child's development is the responsibility of the parents unless they are orphaned or the parents are unfit.
I've always been in favor of free K-12 education for children.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike
Its much cheaper for the 99% to pay through taxation than to pay out-of-pocket in a privatized system as the super rich will always pay more into the system than the middle class. Start counting how much you would pay if everything was privatized, toll roads, schools, police, public utilities, fire department, parks, medicare, kindergarten, disability benefits etc etc. Just privatizing every road in America and implementing toll booths everywhere would likely lead to revolts.
So let's do the opposite. Let's pay for everything for everyone. You work for the state and they allocate you what they think you need. If you don't want this, it means you want everything privatized right? Do you want the government paying for everything or nothing? Which do you want, all or nothing? It's obvious you don't believe in a middle ground since you say I can't.
I'm assuming you want the government to control everything. Great plan Stalin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger
Just giving the government a little more control over your life is what it is. Imagine how free people were 100 years ago. It must have been Heaven compared to the hell we are living now.
Do you think we should be provided our food by the government and just include it in your taxes? It's just a little more control that will reduce obesity, provide more balanced meals and eliminate as much junk food. Ready to sign up?
They will. There are open seats everywhere in European colleges. Its not difficult at all to get admitted as long as you have a high school diploma.
Do you know in Europe and Asia, not everyone can go to a regular high school? Those who perform poorly academically attend special schools to learn practical skills.
There was a student I met who could only afford one meal per day. Paying room and board even gas was difficult for him. Yes, it's affordable if you can commute locally from you parents house. Assuming you stay with your parent and you don't pay rent. However, not everyone lives near a University.
Room and board is NOT the issue here. We are talking about tuiton free public colleges. Like it was in California in the past and lots of other places. Room and board is a seperate issue, and of course it is outrageous that public universities are allowed to demand that first year students stay there as a way to squeeze money out of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NekoLogic
Clinton's plan will cause tuition to go up. Nor has she explain exactly how tuition will be disburst. There are state and federal grants, but in total they don't fully cover the cost of attending a University if I remember right. University will increase their tuition and fund the extra money into research and development. The equipment we use in the wet lab was poor, but functional. A few pieces were new, but they were only new because the old equipment broke down would cost more to repair then buy a new equipment. However, in the research labs, the equipment was new. There was a new XPS equipment at a cost of 1 million dollars and in the nano lab there was another 1 million dollar piece of equipment. Personally, universities will not invest into their undergraduates. At least that is my experience going through an engineering major in a UC. It's a bit odd when your lab equipment is over 15-20 years old compared to what you see in research labs.
PUBLIC universities get their money from the taxpayers so should of course not be allowed to do whatever they see fit in order to squeeze the students and their parents.
You do know that the vast majority of public universities are required to accept all qualified in-state students, right?
There are no competitive admissions except for a handful of schools like the upper tier UC schools.
What is "qualified"? In other words, what are the qualifications? Do they have to be good students? Will the beneficiaries of Hillary's free education have to be good students to qualify?
My main worry about it is that most of it might be wasted on students who don't really want to go to college and aren't willing to work hard enough to get a good education. They might only take advantage of it because their parents pressure them to.
To make it work well, it needs a mechanism to efficiently dump bad students, but maybe let them try again after getting some life experience, holding a job for a certain amount of time, etc.
Do you know in Europe and Asia, not everyone can go to a regular high school? Those who perform poorly academically attend special schools to learn practical skills.
Simply not true. In many northern European countries the only way to not attend high school if you really want to is to basically be mentally challenged. Many go to vocational training out of a desire to become a plumber or whatever.
I told you how to address it. Other countries see education as an investment, not a vehicle to squeeze the working class and middle class as much as possible. You argue through that lense of squeezing. If PUBLIC universities decide to start squeezing as you think they will, there should be penalties for it. After all, these are PUBLIC universities with a budget made up of tax payer money. Let the private institutions squeeze the students as much as they want. The public universities should serve the public good. This used to be the case in America during the more civilized period of our country before Reaganomics kicked in and the massive transfer of wealth to the top got out of hand.
1. The "other countries" example is not a solution.
2. Putting regulations on public schools to limit what they can charge will limit their ability to compete to attract the best students and administration as they won't have the revenue to continually upgrade campus facilities, waste on football programs, and hire the best staff. You will likely see the quality of public schools diminish fairly quickly.
Now, what is your issue with actually digging to the root cause of the rapid inflationary costs that are likely a result of government involvement, greedy administrations, and others like teachers unions, lobbyists, athletic programs, etc?
I don't understand why the gut reaction is to try and giveaway something as soon as it becomes too expensive, rather than to take a serious look at WHY its so expensive and try to fix it. If its too expensive for the individual, its going to be too expensive for the tax payer to subsidize, because the tax payer is mostly just the individual who cant afford it collectively.
PUBLIC universities get their money from the taxpayers
Correct, you have a never ending payment deducted from every paycheck you will ever make.
"It's not fair to make students go into debt and pay on school loans for years, so the answer is to make them pay for school loans for the rest of their lives."
It doesn't get any nuttier than this.
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