Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Yes, just like in Latin America. Crushed unions, a desperate underclass and a tiny elite at the top steamrolling over the 99%. Thats the dream of the donor class that buy the politician you vote for. They dont care about people like you, they laugh at you.
Oh, yes, poor me, I can't do anything without colluding or using government coercion to get what I want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kode
Right. "Level".... --everything to provide incentives and supports for business to thrive and nothing for workers and you call that "level".
Agreements between buyers of labor and sellers of labor as to what the sellers will charge for that labor should be free of certain groups of sellers conspiring to try and fix the price artificially high, yes.
Every time I found myself unsatisfied, I did what was needed to make my skillset more marketable - another certification, more training, another degree, etc. It works. And works much more reliably than expecting that if I whine about it, big brother will demand it for me.
And what happens when $18/hr an hour becomes the new $7/hr as prices increase to offset the increased costs to the business owners and manufacturers? Meanwhile, those at $20, $50, or $100/hr have not received a corresponding increase in their wages and effectively have had their buying power greatly diminished. Then the bottom feeders will demand $30/hr because they just cant make ends meet on that "paltry $18/hr while the robber barons get rich at our expense!"
All the baby turtles don't make it to the sea. That's nature's way. Our attempts to change this idea makes everyone weaker in the end.
Your analogy is lame.
Quote:
There are two types of businesses in America today: those that pay their workers a living wage—the real economy—and those that don’t—the parasite economy.
Quote:
The real economy pays the wages that drive consumer demand, while the parasite economy erodes it. The real economy generates about $5 trillion a year in local, state, and federal tax revenue, while the parasite economy is subsidized by taxes. The real economy provides our children the education and opportunity necessary to grow into the next generation of innovators, entrepreneurs, and civic leaders, while the parasite economy traps them in a cycle of intergenerational poverty.
Denmark (and other European and Scandinavian countries) has a regressive tax system.
Do you know what regressive means, in regards to taxation?
It means taxing a proportionally greater amount from those with lower incomes than those with higher incomes. For reasons I, others in this thread, the Washington Post article, and even the economist I quoted already explained, progressive taxation creates the perverse incentive for the government to enact policies that make the rich even richer because theyre the ones disproportionately paying the country's bills.
Nonsense, the government is made up of people. In Congress, the puppets you support listen to their FINANCIAL OVERLORDS. They are not listening to you. What do the financial overlords want? They dont want a social safety net or anything benefiting the 99%!
The rich still PAY more in Denmark because overall taxes are higher. This stuff you are quoting even argue that corporate income taxes are paid by the rich, yet people like you constantly argue that it is paid by the 99% through higher prices. You are deeply confused.
There is nothing more regressive than LOW TAXES to fund public goods and services as a share of GDP as this means the 99% will have to pay for everything out-of-pocket. This is America. Childcare, education, health care, retirement, disability its everyone for himself. And the super rich have the politicians in their pocket to get what they want from the tax payer.
Some guy with an investment website and radio show says the top 10% - e.g. small business owners as well as investors and the top 1% - pay 70% of the taxes.
Maybe he and his clients and listeners should thank low wage workers for making that possible?
Here's a scenario based on a previous workplace:
Owner has $500K payroll, nets $3M annually, is in top tax bracket, pays ~$1M tax per year. All employees are in 10% tax bracket, slightly above poverty level, and pay negligible taxes. Total tax revenue = $1M.
Now consider a hypothetical pay raise, a $1M payroll, and employer nets $2.5M per year. Employer now pays $800K tax. Employees now pay $100K taxes Total tax revenue = $900K.
Oops, looks like total tax revenues fell when the low-wage workers got a raise.
Perhaps that owner can pay a wage that puts the employees in a tax bracket higher than 10% (100K of 1 million = 10%). After all, it is difficult to live on under 10K/year.2016 Tax Brackets | Tax Foundation
Quote:
According to data compiled by the Brookings Institution, 73 million Americans—nearly one-quarter of our population—live in households eligible for the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC), a benefit exclusively available to the working poor. I want to underscore this point. Nearly a quarter of our fellow citizens are poor—not because they don’t have jobs, but because they or their family members do—mostly working for giant profitable corporations.
Ehhm, what are you getting at here, exactly? And what does this have to do with a discussion of taxes and labor pricing?
Are you saying society should try and use force to make things "fair" because some people are just born dumb?
Yes, absolutely. Do you have children with disabilities? You had nothing to do with your genetic lottery. A fair society is a society where everyone has a decent standard of living even if they didnt win the genetic lottery (the overwhelming majority of the population).
In the end, it's all about individuals. That's called personal responsibility. We are born one by one and doe one by one. What happens in between in largely up to us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kode
Ever hear of "property taxes"? And I don't have any kids.
I do. I have one in 5th grade and am paying $28,000 for her tuition this year. And I still pay property taxes to support the local snake pit of a public school.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kode
No. I pay for mine and 1) that is irrelevant because you are trying to make this to be an issue of individuals, and 2) it's none of your business since this is not about individuals.
It is all about individuals. And mine is subsidized by my employer as part of the employment agreement. I bring some mad skills to the table and negotiated my worth, of which that is part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kode
No, it's not better and you are advocating for the rich right now. Those who can more afford taxes should pay more taxes. Taxing a $10 million income 70% (which unfortunately isn't going to happen) will never harm the ability of a person to pay for a nice roof over their head, and new car, food on the table prepared by a personal chef, a housekeeper, and a vacation home.
No, everyone should pay the absolute same, dollar for dollar. But since that ain't gonna happen, a flat percentage could work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kode
And it would be hurting me much, much, much more than it would be hurting you.
Then you should work at making yourself worth more. If you decide not to, then you have no room to complain. And certainly not to benefit in any way from the higher worth of my skills.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kode
You get to live on $140,000 and I get to live on $10,000. How is that fair? No, I don't expect equality, but we need to provide adequate supports for those who cannot help themselves.
Your choice. If I generate $200,000 worth of value then why should you get a free ride while I must pay $40,000 in taxes? (You really need to learn math, which shows why you may make so little.) Providing "adequate supports" is one thing, but no one should be getting a completely free ride while others toil to pay taxes - which are taken at gunpoint.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kode
Well that's a crock and you know it. Like every such argument you ignore the many, many differences between people and their life circumstances because that is the only argument you have.
I was born and grew up in the shadow of a mill. We didn't have two nickels to rub together. In high school, while friends were hanging out, I was scrubbing pots in a part time job to put money aside for college. Don't whine about sad stories to me. When I wanted more, I found an employer to pay for grad school and was in class every night after working a hard day. When that wasn't enough, I did the same again for a 2nd Masters'. Same with industry certifications, starting an independent business, etc. Where there's a will there's a way, and where there's no will... no way.
It's not nonsense. It's actual economic fact. The proof? Countries with regressive tax systems have far less income inequality. Why? Their governments don't have to enact policies that make the rich even richer to generate enough tax revenue to pay the country's bills.
And their governments are made up of people, too.
We can explain economic fact to you and other uninformed American liberals until the cows come home, but you'll never get it. That inexplicable resistance to actual fact is nothing but deliberately choosing to remain willfully ignorant. Consequently, the rich get richer and the poor become more poor. The income/wealth gaps widen. You're doing it to yourselves.
So how did you go to school since you dont support public schools (funded by gunpoint through taxpayer money) or anything to help the less fortunate?
A parochial school and high school with my attendance accepted by the church my family was a member of.
And I am supporting public education, albeit at gunpoint. I feed, clothe, educate and support my child. I expect no more and no less of others. If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
