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Is there an average age where or by children usually tend to outgrow the gender dysphoria? Medical intervention does not happen until puberty, and it's reversible anyway. IMO it's worse to wait until after puberty because if someone is trans, they will then have irreversible changes making them distinctly more masculine or feminine. If at puberty (which IMO seems late) a child is still insisting they are the opposite gender, I don't see the harm in reversible hormone treatments IF they then happen to change their mind at that point. What's the worst, you let the kid do what they wanted and felt was right, and they were happy at the time and not, say, suicidal? Waiting until after puberty can be extremely hard on trans people from what I understand. Caitlyn Jenner can never be as feminine looking or sounding as Jazz Jennings. It's easier to "blend in" when one looks and acts the part. It presumably can also lead to less bullying and hate when one is less obviously actually a born male or female.
Everything I have read is mid-late puberty. I experienced mine 2 years after I began menstruating.
I wish they did have a better way of determining who will persist and who will desist. My fear is that it won't really start happening until some kids start killing themselves because they feel they can't desist with suicide notes that state so. Already there are teens on boards voicing this but the minute they do they get jumped all over. I knew of one who had to end up shutting down all their social media because they were getting bullied over it.
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It starts as a poor parenting issue or lack of parenting but it progresses into a mental health issue and the child is a victim of either/both.
My parents, while harsh at times, were amazing. My biological Dad is an amazing man. My Mother is equally amazing. Even though they, along with most of my other family, disowned me when I came to terms with myself, I will always love them. They took very good care of me.
I can only hope that as time moves forward, people - especially parents for God's sake - can be more open-minded and accepting. I think it is slowly happening.
Me too. Things are getting better, sometime change comes slowly.
My parents, while harsh at times, were amazing. My biological Dad is an amazing man. My Mother is equally amazing. Even though they, along with most of my other family, disowned me when I came to terms with myself, I will always love them. They took very good care of me.
I am so sorry. I don't think mine would have had things turned out differently. I always knew they loved me and in their own way accepted me. I wish you could have had that.
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But, see that's the thing, what several researchers have found is that there isn't, at least not significant enough to establish a set of criteria to use.
No, I am not transgender. I don't do the whole feminine thing well, but I am happy to be a woman. I don't think prepubescent children should be labeled transsexual precisely because there are so many that will end up desisting.
This is the current DSM criteria. Kids who end up growing into transgender adults fall under it as well as kids who will end up desisting sometime during puberty.
No, that is not the current DSM. DSM V uses gender dysphoria, not gender identity disorder. That was done specifically to make it clear that any mental health issue is due to the psychosocial effects of dealing with the perceived gender, not the mere presence of gender incongruity.
Noticeable incongruence between the gender that the patient sees themselves are, and what their classified gender assignment
An intense need to do away with his or her primary or secondary sex features (or, in the case of young teenagers, to avert the maturity of the likely secondary features)
An intense desire to have the primary or secondary sex features of the other gender
A deep desire to transform into another gender
A profound need for society to treat them as another gender
A powerful assurance of having the characteristic feelings and responses of the other gender
The second necessity is that the condition should be connected with clinically important distress, or affects the individual significantly socially, at work, and in other import areas of life.
Although this list and the one you posted are similar, there are subtle differences that highlight the intensity of the identification with the perceived gender.
To know is to think... that is a function of mind. Again, it IS a mental issue. It poses a problem if one wishes to live as the other gender. Mental + problem = mental problem.
It is not meant to be a slur as in "mentally ill" or defective. It merely identifies the source.
If one was one gender, but hormones were somehow reversed in proportion, it would be a physiological problem. Again, no intention of judgment or slur.
It is a physiological condition. Hormones affect brain function but sometimes the brain does not respond in the expected way. It becomes a "problem" when a transgendered person is not accepted for who he or she is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roaddog
It starts as a poor parenting issue or lack of parenting but it progresses into a mental health issue and the child is a victim of either/both.
Parenting has nothing to do with it. How do you account for identical twins reared together where one is transgender and one is not?
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Originally Posted by Oldhag1
Everything I have read is mid-late puberty. I experienced mine 2 years after I began menstruating.
I wish they did have a better way of determining who will persist and who will desist. My fear is that it won't really start happening until some kids start killing themselves because they feel they can't desist with suicide notes that state so. Already there are teens on boards voicing this but the minute they do they get jumped all over. I knew of one who had to end up shutting down all their social media because they were getting bullied over it.
In other words, the persistently transgender folks who are committing suicide, many of them teens, do not count? Do you have any case reports of desisters committing suicide?
First off, let me explain a couple of things, since I am going to take the position of opposing the transgender nonsense. And by oppose I dont mean that I feel anything should be done to harass or persecute transgendered, but that I dont feel that society has to accept that Bruce Jenner , for example, is really now a woman. Bruce/Caitlyn is free to dress as he likes, live his life as he likes, without any approval needed from anyone. But he is not a woman. He is a man who seems to think he is a woman and is more comfortable living life as such. Good for him. I have no problem with that. But none of this makes him a woman, and I am not required to accept that a person with a penis is actually a woman simply because they mentally identify as such. They have some mental issues of some sort, whether biological or merely psychological. But having this issue does not alter the biological reality of what they are in terms of gender. And after that digression, back to my intial attempt to explain myself before commenting further.
First , while I dont see the trans issue as being similar to the gay issue, some do, so it helps to first explain that I do not care what adults do in their bedrooms, whether straight, gay, bi, or liking multiple people at the same time. Simply is none of mine or anyone elses business as long as all involved are adult, and willing participants, and my stance on transgender has nothing to do with any conflation with and opposition to homosexuality. I wish the T were removed from the LBGTQ whatever whatever alphabet soup. Its not really the same issue.
Second, as I alluded to already, I do not wish to see the transgendered harassed or persecuted in any way because of their condition, and I do not post this to aggravate or anger or troll the transgendered. I do understand that voicing opposition to this PC idea will almost inevitably cause an angry response though, and accept that some will get angry . But I simply do not accept that society has to regard biological males as women, or vice versa, and treat them as if in fact they actually are, simply because they feel like the opposite sex. Gender is a biological fact based on the physical equipment an individual person has, not a mental selection to be made based on ones feelings . Sorry, but thats just the way it is. A female is a person that has or had the physical equipment to get pregnant and deliver a baby, whether that equipment functions or is used for such being beside the point. A male is a person with the physical equipment intended to deliver sperm to the female to fertilize the females eggs. No amount of PC word salad will alter this point.
We would not accept a person feeling they were 50 yrs older than their true age as a norm society had to accept. We would not let a 30 yr old draw Social Security because they have a psychological condition that made them feel like an old person. We would recognize some mental issue was at work and deal with it without giving legitimacy to that mental issue. Same would happen if a Caucasian tried to claim he felt like a black person, and tried to get classified as a minority based on his perception of himself as a black man. Society is not going to rush to the aid of a white guy getting fired who says he is black and was fired because he is black and wants to sue for racial discrimination. Yet we are expected to treat a person with some sort of physiological or mental condition that causes gender confusion as if they are indeed the opposite sex, even when it is obvious by any superficial exam that one could administer that the transgendered is not truly the gender they claim to be.
While I feel for the plight of those with gender confusion , where their wants and desires clash with society , society does not have to upend all societal norms to pander to ( for lack of a better way of putting it) the transgendered.
Why do you speak of people this way? They are not creatures. They are humans. No different then you and I. Have you always had such hatred in your heart towards other humans? What in your eyes makes them so unsafe to be around?
Humans are born male or female. Born, not "assigned", not "decided", and not "changable". And believing otherwise makes them drastically different, at least from me. (I cannot speak for you.) I have no hatred, but am not prone to indulging to the whims of the insane or deluded, whatever the root of such delusion may be. I prefer to deal in reality and facts as they are, not what some may want them to be. I believe the delusions and behaviors discussed in this thread to be the result of serious mental illness, no matter what others may allege here.
As for unsafe, I have worked with the mentally ill. During that time, I was on numerous occasions injured by them. I have been stabbed by someone who seconds before seemed perfectly fine, and had bones broken by those who flew into a sudden rage. Letting your guard down, even for a second, is a dangerous thing to do when dealing with those disconnected from reality. And a man in a dress, thinking he's not a man, fits into that category.
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Originally Posted by FluidFreedom
I would have no problem at all with my child being around a gay or transgendered troup leader. If they were good at their job and taught many useful skills to children, what does matter their sexual orientation or gender?
But those under discussion don't seem to acknowledge the reality of their gender. I wouldn't want them around my child, both for the reasons stated above and as an example of what is acceptable behavior. Both of your examples are of those who make bad choices (for whatever reason) and to me, that's not a safe person to trust the care of my child to. Get them the help they need, and that means appropriate help, not furthering their madness nor going along with their desire to be mutilated.
I am so sorry. I don't think mine would have had things turned out differently. I always knew they loved me and in their own way accepted me. I wish you could have had that.
That's really kind of you, thank you. I'm doing great, of course I miss them...so much I try not to think about it, but I've been blessed with an amazing church family, they don't entirely understand all this, but they love and accept me as I am and I have an incredible group of friends.
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