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It seems to me many liberals are being hypocrites. They blast the blight in the inner cities, they blast the murders - and then scream unfair if Trump takes their message and attaches the word "carnage."
Are they worried he will stop these blue voters from being murdered and turn them into red voters for his reelection?
Are democrats going to stop comparing the US murder rate to Canada, Japan, China, and Western Europe-- as we supposedly don't have carnage and murder rates are down in red precincts - even if raising in many blue precincts?
If the President wishes to claim "carnage" in bad Chicago or elsewhere I would certainly not argue. It may be a bit of an overstatement but the local residents might well agree. However that does not go in most of the US. NYC and Washington DC are actually down in crime. And the suburban areas of the big city are not in the least suffering from "carnage".
Detroit started down hill after peaking in the late 50s. It has continued that decline ever since. Even the present "renaissance" is liikely overstated. The drop in population has still not abated.
So the US is suffering in places from old and sustained declines. And they are not going to stop because Trump wishes it. But vast areas continue to do very well and are growing strongly. The country is reshaping but it is not collapsing.
What Trump might want to do is help the inevitable shifts to occur smoothly without rancor. Detroit is never coming back as a manufacturing center. Perhaps they can follow the lead of Pittsburgh and make something new out of the ruins...but no Trump is not going to renew Detroit manufacturing.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon
In his inauguration speech Trump described shuttered factories in the Rust Belt and violence/problems in the inner cities as "American Carnage."
Michael Moore has made millions of dollars in profit describing shuttered factories in the Rust Belt and gun violence.....his films Roger and Me and Bowling to Columbine quickly come to mind. So then he dismisses Trump's point and calls for an end to "Trump's carnage?"
For years I have heard Democrats touch on these very same themes...yet I don't really hear any Democrats that aren't dismissing the speech and/or criticizing it.
On TV I hear Democrats dismissing violence as not a big deal and down from the 1990s, while ignoring that it is still way up from the 1950s, still much higher than Canada, Japan, China, Western Europe, still ignoring that although violence is down nationwide it is in fact increasing in many inner cities, that the Democrats repeatedly call for more gun control to stop shootings (aka carnage), etc...
Bernie rallied against outsourcing, unfair trade deals, and needs to reduce gun violence through more regulations to huge ovations.
What gives?
Violence is a big problem, violence is not at its peak or near record highs as Donald Trump stated.
Saying Trump's statement is false is not the same as saying there is no problem at all.
Also, Trump wants a different solution to the problem than Democrats.
Violence is a big problem, violence is not at its peak or near record highs as Donald Trump stated.
Saying Trump's statement is false is not the same as saying there is no problem at all.
Except what you are saying is a lie. When pointed out about the hypocrisy, the left started lying about what exactly Trump said. Trump did not say violence was at record highs - liberals just started lying that he did as an excuse to cover up their hypocrisy and then other people like you bought the lie.
Americans want great schools for their children, safe neighborhoods for their families, and good jobs for themselves. These are just and reasonable demands of righteous people and a righteous public, but for too many of our citizens a different reality exists. Mothers and children trapped in poverty in our inner cities, rusted out factories, scattered like tombstones across the across the landscape of our nation, an education system flush with cash, but which leaves our young and beautiful students deprived of all knowledge, and the crime, and the gangs, and the drugs that have stolen too many lives and robbed our country of so much unrealized potential. This American carnage stops right here and stops right now.
We are one nation and their pain is our pain. Their dreams are our dreams and their success will be our success. We share one heart, one home, and one glorious destiny.
This is a far more mild message than Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine, which liberals shilled out big bucks for, making Moore rich.
Notice, the liberal lie, no where does he say violence is at its peak or near record highs, he merely states that too much violence has stolen our country's potential. No where in his speech does he make such a claim. Liberals are lying about his speech, because the speech was valid, but something must get criticized within it.
Bernie Sanders could have had this passage in a speech and gotten thunderous applause from his audience.
Except what you are saying is a lie. When pointed out about the hypocrisy, the left started lying about what exactly Trump said. Trump did not say violence was at record highs - liberals just started lying that he did as an excuse to cover up their hypocrisy and then other people like you bought the lie.
This is a far more mild message than Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine, which liberals shilled out big bucks for, making Moore rich.
Notice, the liberal lie, no where does he say violence is at its peak or near record highs, he merely states that too much violence has stolen our country's potential. No where in his speech does he make such a claim. Liberals are lying about his speech, because the speech was valid, but something must get criticized within it.
Bernie Sanders could have had this passage in a speech and gotten thunderous applause from his audience.
You are correct that Trump has not claimed violent crime is at a peak. He does however imply that it is getting worse and a huge problem. "Carnage" is a harsh word. dAnd A"American" implies it is widespread. There is a spike in violent crime though there is a decrease in other cities. Trump suggest sending the Feds into Chicago...but there are much worse cities. Why does not Trump have the Feds moving in there already?
In fact crime decreased over the Obama administration. I am not sure that Obama had anything to do with that or with the violent crime spike at the end of his term. Crime appears to be driven by sociological trends and changes that are poorly understood. That any administration has significant ability to change them is not clear.
So the bottom line is that "American carnage" is political speech based on next to nothing.
You are correct that Trump has not claimed violent crime is at a peak. He does however imply that it is getting worse and a huge problem.
It is not true that Trump implied in the speech that crime is rising. If it were, you would cite the phrases that imply it, but you know what you posted is false and so you can't cite any part to back up your claim.
He says that violence is stealing the country of unrealized potential.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch
"Carnage" is a harsh word.
I feel sorry if you are disturbed by such a harsh word.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch
dAnd A"American" implies it is widespread. There is a spike in violent crime though there is a decrease in other cities.
It is clear that you are either commenting on a speech that you didn't hear or you are making up stuff for partisan gain. If you actually looked at the speech the term "American Carnage" as Trump was using it refers to more than just violence. It also refers to other things like the Rust Belt's vacant factories rusting away idle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch
Trump suggest sending the Feds into Chicago...but there are much worse cities. Why does not Trump have the Feds moving in there already?
This is a vacuous liberal talking point, probably due to some sort of attempt to shield Obama from any connection to Chicago.
Chicago is the third largest city in America and has more murders and shootings than any other city. Chicago has vast areas of upper and middle class neighborhoods with very low crimes. Chicago also has vast areas of poverty and extremely high crime.
It is either a deception or a lack of any logic to respond to Chicago's #1 murder totals with "derp, derp Flint has a higher murder rate." As you can carve an area out of Chicago nearly 10 times the population of Flint with a similar murder rate.
Chicago has a population and area with a high murder rate that is unrivaled anywhere in the US. No other city has such an area of violent crime that is comparable.
Secondly, Trump has been in office for less than a week. At least he is trying to address the hundreds of murders every year in Chicago that is currently on the rise. While Democrats down play it for partisan purposes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch
In fact crime decreased over the Obama administration. I am not sure that Obama had anything to do with that or with the violent crime spike at the end of his term. Crime appears to be driven by sociological trends and changes that are poorly understood. That any administration has significant ability to change them is not clear.
Crime also dropped over the course of George W. Bush's presidency. Yet Democrats constantly clamored for more laws to reduce crime - no? Crime is currently on the rise in a lot of inner cities per the NY Times article I had linked.
Let me guess - you don't live in the inner city and so you can ignore the violence and the wide spread problems for partisan gain. You have their votes already, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch
So the bottom line is that "American carnage" is political speech based on next to nothing.
Then are Democrats willing to drop various attempts at regulating guns?
Why did so many Bernie supporters cheer when he called out the exact same things Trump did (Idle factories, lack of decent jobs, poor trade deals, violent crimes)?
Why do so many Democrats continue to give millions from their wallets to Michael Moore who touches on all of this.
Why do Democrats still compare our murder rates to Japan, western Europe, and etc and then call to action?
Liberals = hypocrisy and lies, because "carnage" is a mean word and we need to hammer Trump 360 degrees 24/7.
Those who are undisturbed by the term "American carnage" being used by Trump will probably be ecstatic when he moves toward the term "purge" as part of the solution.
Ahhh stop. "Carnage" implies a wide spread dystopian country. We don't have that. Crime is down vastly over 20 years ago. Yes it could get better but I find the discussion with my children most interesting. I point out how they helicopter parent their children even though they grew up in a crime climate twice as bad without that. They reluctantly agree but claim it feels worse.
Economically we suffer from the gains in productivity mainly. The actual output of the US is at or close to an all time high. The problem is we do it with far less workers. And that is only going to get worse over the next decades whether Trump or anyone else. It is clearly coming and no Luddite crusade will stop it.
There is no carnage. There are no bodies in the street in the vast majority of the country and they are rare in the bad areas.
Trump again simply lies to appeal to that small part of the population that has, in fact, suffered in the changing of the economy. And it got him elected. But it does not put the vast majority of us into a carnage situation. And it is to rough a term for being simpy hyperbola. He is simply selling to his contingent...and screw the rest of us.
Very nice side-step of the original question. Astaire would be proud.
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