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Old 03-05-2017, 08:52 PM
 
Location: San Diego
18,744 posts, read 7,613,748 times
Reputation: 15010

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
The constitution, including the BOR means whatever the SCOTUS says it means.
Complete nonsense.

The Constitution had a firm meaning when it was first written and ratified, long before any court ever laid a finger on it.

And no court has ever changed even the tiniest bit of it.

A number of courts have said things that were simply (and obviously, in the case of the 2nd amendment) not true. Those things didn't change the Constitution at all. They merely degraded the dignity of the court making the false statement.
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Old 03-05-2017, 08:54 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,210,859 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
I know you don't like the answer, but that's the way the founders set it up.
Jefferson on Politics & Government: Judicial Review

Well this is half-true. Most of the founders didn't believe that the Supreme Court should be the "ultimate arbiter of all Constitutional questions". They believed that each branch of government should be co-equal and independent. And Thomas Jefferson took it a step further, and believed that the states should also be co-equal and independent.

Quote:
"The question whether the judges are invested with exclusive authority to decide on the constitutionality of a law has been heretofore a subject of consideration with me in the exercise of official duties. Certainly there is not a word in the Constitution which has given that power to them more than to the Executive or Legislative branches." - Thomas Jefferson

"But the Chief Justice says, 'There must be an ultimate arbiter somewhere.' True, there must; but does that prove it is either party? The ultimate arbiter is the people of the Union, assembled by their deputies in convention, at the call of Congress or of two-thirds of the States. Let them decide to which they mean to give an authority claimed by two of their organs. And it has been the peculiar wisdom and felicity of our Constitution, to have provided this peaceable appeal, where that of other nations is at once to force." - Thomas Jefferson

"The Constitution... meant that its coordinate branches should be checks on each other. But the opinion which gives to the judges the right to decide what laws are constitutional and what not, not only for themselves in their own sphere of action but for the Legislature and Executive also in their spheres, would make the Judiciary a despotic branch." - Thomas Jefferson

"To consider the judges as the ultimate arbiters of all constitutional questions [is] a very dangerous doctrine indeed, and one which would place us under the despotism of an oligarchy. Our judges are as honest as other men and not more so. They have with others the same passions for party, for power, and the privilege of their corps. Their maxim is boni judicis est ampliare jurisdictionem [good justice is broad jurisdiction], and their power the more dangerous as they are in office for life and not responsible, as the other functionaries are, to the elective control. The Constitution has erected no such single tribunal, knowing that to whatever hands confided, with the corruptions of time and party, its members would become despots. It has more wisely made all the departments co-equal and co-sovereign within themselves." - Thomas Jefferson

"This member of the Government was at first considered as the most harmless and helpless of all its organs. But it has proved that the power of declaring what the law is, ad libitum, by sapping and mining slyly and without alarm the foundations of the Constitution, can do what open force would not dare to attempt." - Thomas Jefferson

"In denying the right [the Supreme Court usurps] of exclusively explaining the Constitution, I go further than [others] do, if I understand rightly [this] quotation from the Federalist of an opinion that 'the judiciary is the last resort in relation to the other departments of the government, but not in relation to the rights of the parties to the compact under which the judiciary is derived.' If this opinion be sound, then indeed is our Constitution a complete felo de se [act of suicide]. For intending to establish three departments, coordinate and independent, that they might check and balance one another, it has given, according to this opinion, to one of them alone the right to prescribe rules for the government of the others, and to that one, too, which is unelected by and independent of the nation. For experience has already shown that the impeachment it has provided is not even a scare-crow... The Constitution on this hypothesis is a mere thing of wax in the hands of the judiciary, which they may twist and shape into any form they please." - Thomas Jefferson

Don't spread misinformation. The current concept of the Supreme Court was a product of the Civil War. When the Supreme Court was used to destroy the idea of States' rights.
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Old 03-05-2017, 08:56 PM
 
46,963 posts, read 25,998,208 times
Reputation: 29454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
He is referring to instances where the lawmakers are creating legislation far outside the framework laid out in the Constitution, and in fact in violation of it.
If only we had some sort of institution set up to decide in matters of that sort, some sort of Supreme Court, as it were.
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Old 03-05-2017, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Gone
25,231 posts, read 16,941,526 times
Reputation: 5932
Quote:
Originally Posted by stockwiz View Post
I've got 1000 rounds of 9MM and about 10 bricks of .22LR.. I should keep stocking up.. at 25 bucks a box worst case scenario I can sell boxes for 50 bucks and make my money back during the next shortage.

Finding bricks of .22 is still very hit or miss around here though.. you have to hit wally world right in the morning when they get stock.

I also need more .223 for my AR-15 and .32 for my Ruger LCP.
This might help, Goggle Cheaper than Dirt.
My base line, meaning I never go below tis number and usually have far more stocked
500 rounds per Handgun by caliber with a mix of ball and defensive ammo
1500 per AR, all 62 Grain or better on the 5.56 and 149 grain or better on the 7.62/.308
2000 per 22/10.
1000 per shotgun, mix of hunting and defensive shells
Those are on the basic load per firearm, and do not include extra for weekly practice and plinking, hunting, or because I found a good deal on a bulk ammo.
Sounds like a lot until one thinks of how long it might last in SHTF scenario, goes fast and no reliable source makes stocking up a good idea. Not to mention that ammo pretty much lasts forever if stored properly or replaced on a regular basis ad that the prices go up and todays expensive ammo maybe be the price for practice stuff in a few years, the winds can change quickly and then it is too late.
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Old 03-05-2017, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Gone
25,231 posts, read 16,941,526 times
Reputation: 5932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Wait, what? Some sort of system based on elected lawmakers representing their constituents and creating legislation within the framework laid out in the Constitution, with a system of lower and higher courts acting as a check and balance? Are you a Communist?
Of-course I am, Just call me Moscow Joe.........
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Old 03-05-2017, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,210,859 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
Without everyone agreeing to abide by the courts ruling, we would have pure anarchy.
I largely agree with you on this point. I don't know if this country could have held itself together without a Supreme Court, and the reverence people hold for its decisions.


Of course, while you may complain of anarchy. The opposite of anarchy, is despotism.



Which one is better?
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Old 03-05-2017, 09:06 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,634,918 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
The 2nd amendment says that since an armed, disciplined population is necessary for security in a free country, the right of normal people to KBA cannot be restricted.

This is clearly a flat ban on any govt in the country making any law restricting our ability to purchase, own, and carry a gun. Yet a number of governments (Federal, State, local) have made laws restricting exactly those things.

What should we obey? The 2nd amendment? Or the government officials making the "gun control" laws?

The text of the 2nd amendment leaves very little interpretation.
Yet, a substantial amount of language has been added to it, by legislation without amendment. The politically appointed SC with an agenda and deciding how they feel, instead of by the language in the constitution, has changed the 2nd amendment from the bench.


I abide by the text.
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Old 03-05-2017, 09:08 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,634,918 times
Reputation: 18521
Funny, how the first time the government challenged the people over the 2nd amendment, was soon after the end of the Civil War, where the people challenged unconstitutional measures, bearing the arms they kept.
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Old 03-05-2017, 09:10 PM
 
Location: PSL
8,224 posts, read 3,498,932 times
Reputation: 2963
Quote:
Originally Posted by stockwiz View Post
I've got 1000 rounds of 9MM and about 10 bricks of .22LR.. I should keep stocking up.. at 25 bucks a box worst case scenario I can sell boxes for 50 bucks and make my money back during the next shortage.

Finding bricks of .22 is still very hit or miss around here though.. you have to hit wally world right in the morning when they get stock.

I also need more .223 for my AR-15 and .38 for my Ruger LCP.
Wal-Mart 420 round can of XM193 Lake City 138.99 bought all 5 they had in stock. Comes on stripper clips and includes speed loaders. They also have 855 in 420 round cans.

Price of ammo has dropped that same case of ammo was 210 dollars a month ago
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Old 03-05-2017, 09:12 PM
 
46,963 posts, read 25,998,208 times
Reputation: 29454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
Case law wasn't always the law, until the nullification crisis of 1832
In polite terms, this is factually incorrect. The US legal system has been a common law system since inception, and case law is considered binding in common law.
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