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Old 05-06-2017, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
783 posts, read 695,857 times
Reputation: 961

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So I am not a liberal/progressive. I don't even think that healthcare is a human right. But I do think that conservatives should accept some form of government guarantee of health insurance as a protection within the borders of the US. If you disagree then explain why my logic is incorrect.

The reason is simple:

It is a practical impossibility not to do so.

Let me explain,

The difference is that healthcare coverage in a genuine catastrophic manner, lets use life, limb or eyesight as a starting point for what is catastrophic. Even Ann Coulter rights about healthcare,

"I'm perfectly healthy, but I'd like to buy health insurance for heart disease, broken bones, cancer, and everything else that a normal person would ever need, but no more."

I think this is perfectly sensible as I am in the same position as hers. However what if I do not pay? Should the government just allow me to get hit by the proverbial bus and die? Well it can't because it's impossible. Hospitals CANNOT practically distinguish between paying and non-paying customers at a genuine emergency. If you were to fall over unconscious, you obviously cannot prove to the hospital at that point whether you are a paying or non-paying member. (i.e. you have health insurance) So the government already forces hospitals to guarantee that they will patch someone up regardless once they walk into the emergency room. The money happens after the procedure. This forces the taxpayer to pay for everyone who doesn't have insurance due to negligence, difficulty etc. And this is a very expensive and needlessly burdensome problem for both taxpayers and the person who is injured. Therefore since taxpayers are forced to pay, it is reasonable that we are given assurance for what we are going to ultimately responsible for anyway.

Let's use the car insurance analogy that is so popular. The difference between car insurance and health insurance is that if you crash your car, the government doesn't force repair shops to fix your car for you. Taxpayers don't subsidize repair shops, but they do pay doctors. We just don't get a good deal on what we pay for doctors. If we were to guarantee the coverage and force hospitals/doctors to take lower fees (like they do in other countries) for this procedure. We could both lower costs and guarantee a sensible approach to healthcare.

Look to Singapore as an example. They have the closest to a free-market system and they do precisely that, they guarantee catastrophic coverage while having people pay for basic procedures. Not to mention that it is probably politically unsustainable to not guarantee that people will get hit by a bus and get covered.
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Old 05-06-2017, 05:09 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
783 posts, read 695,857 times
Reputation: 961
I made some silly writing errors. But still, come on conservatives, reply! I want to know why you believe the government shouldn't do anything about healthcare.
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Old 05-06-2017, 05:38 PM
 
27,307 posts, read 16,226,860 times
Reputation: 12102
Government is not the answer but the problem.

They can't manage a sandbox.

Not no but hell no.

I am not fond of paying for other people's stuff.
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Old 05-06-2017, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
783 posts, read 695,857 times
Reputation: 961
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
Government is not the answer but the problem.

They can't manage a sandbox.

Not no but hell no.

I am not fond of paying for other people's stuff.
This was basically a non-answer. A complete dodge.



Can someone else actually answer my argument?
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Old 05-06-2017, 07:48 PM
 
8,226 posts, read 3,423,206 times
Reputation: 6094
I thought I read somewhere that the Trump administration was planning on providing catastrophic insurance to all Americans. Don't remember where I read it though.

That is exactly what I think would make sense.

With the ACA, we don't even have the ability to buy catastrophic insurance.
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Old 05-06-2017, 09:51 PM
 
Location: Texas
37,949 posts, read 17,870,209 times
Reputation: 10371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logicist027 View Post
This was basically a non-answer. A complete dodge.



Can someone else actually answer my argument?
It's not a dodge. Only someone who is okay with inadequately run would want to see federal government run on the label. Big Pharm ring a bell? Federal government run VA humming along? In what may be the only industry that it has happened, in medicine technology hasn't lowered the costs.

What part of that don't you understand? How many more examples do you need?
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Old 05-06-2017, 09:59 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,892,870 times
Reputation: 11259
Let's see. The more government we have had in health care the worse off we have been so the answer is to double down on stupid.
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Old 05-06-2017, 10:01 PM
 
Location: London
12,275 posts, read 7,142,126 times
Reputation: 13661
Theoretically, the issue of the ERs could be solved by having those without health insurance wear some kind of prominent badge so that everyone knows not to call 911 for them if they go unconscious (since they wouldn't be able to afford medical care).
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Old 05-06-2017, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,368,921 times
Reputation: 14459
I've been saying it all over the boards and I'll say it again here:

If you're a statist (and all Republicans believe in involuntary government) it is absolutely insane to not accept the State to mandate complete health care for all.

You have no pro-capitalism claim (as an anarcho-capitalist only in a stateless society can capitalism exist) and you have no moral claim (you're already accepting theft, imprisonment and murder by accepting the State).

It's just absurd to say "Get the government out of this one aspect of the market" when it's

1. Not possible
2. Not consistent with any claims of pro-capitalism
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Old 05-06-2017, 10:08 PM
 
32,065 posts, read 15,067,783 times
Reputation: 13688
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
Government is not the answer but the problem.

They can't manage a sandbox.

Not no but hell no.

I am not fond of paying for other people's stuff.

Someone has to do something about the prices pharma wants to charge. Many insurance companies won't even cover the cost of some of these meds. So some people are just out of luck because they can't afford them. Government needs to step in.
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