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Within the realm of an advanced, first-world society, yes, absolutely. A government is only as healthy as its citizen are healthy in both mind and body.
The scenario given was one in which the person had the choice of helping the other. If it was dictated I had to give up so much to help them survive I still understand that. We really haven't established why the other person is not contributing, if they are unable for some reason. The real world is much more complex and many more questions and obstacles, where people can easily slip into poverty and be unable to climb out. Getting sicker because no health care only increases nonproductivity and poverty.
In my original post I pointed out that the number of people involved, or the more technology there is (and could have said "the more complex things get), it doesn't change anything about rights. I actually added that specifically because a lot of people will try to make things more complicated in order to avoid the options they're faced with.
They look crazy if they say that the other person has a RIGHT to the other person's stuff simply by showing up and "needing" it, but if they say they don't have a right to it and the person who made the stuff is allowed to decide who can use it, they're making the free market capitalist argument.
There is no other option when you break it down. The only point of adding complexity is to distract (not that you're purposely trying to).
I actually saw a Facebook argument about this where a true communist was asked something similar, and they kept saying "you're oversimplifying it". It's all about determining who has the right to that property, but he couldn't answer which person had the true right to it. The other guy said "if your philosophy can't even handle two people, how does complicating the scenario help you figure out that issue?"
Within the realm of an advanced, first-world society, yes, absolutely. A government is only as healthy as its citizen are healthy in both mind and body.
True, but the same can be said about a parasite and it's host.
Notice the multiple fallacies in these types of posts...
Appeal to Emotion (using poor abused children in a slum)
Equivocation (subtle changing of a definition - freedom, in this case)
Straw man/Non sequitur (those against socialized medicine want the poor to stay poor and hate social mobility)
Also referring to us as "alt-righters"...another poster did that earlier too. It reminds me of when I was in college and someone mentioned something slightly libertarian and another student was like "You Tea Partiers blah blah blah"...
LOL, the nerve!!
Arent you that say "commies, socialists,dem, lefties, anarchists" as if they are all the same and interchangable concepts?? LOL, the forum is full of this, you right wingers have no idea what the left is or what all this ideologies mean and you group it alltogether and in your head it only means "those who arent right wing"
But if someone calls you nazis you get all outraged and report, meanwhile you call anyone who doesnt agree with you all this names and ideologies as if they were the same!
Also, nice way to deflect the point about freedom not being equal for everyone
Arent you that say "commies, socialists,dem, lefties, anarchists" as if they are all the same and interchangable concepts?? LOL, the forum is full of this, you right wingers have no idea what the left is or what all this ideologies mean and you group it alltogether and in your head it only means "those who arent right wing"
But if someone calls you nazis you get all outraged and report, meanwhile you call anyone who doesnt agree with you all this names and ideologies as if they were the same!
Also, nice way to deflect the point about freedom not being equal for everyone
No, I AM an anarchist actually...
And your question about freedom is confusing 2 definitions. The freedom we're talking about is the freedom from other people's coercion.
Such a blanket statement, I'm sure there are people who feel they are better now, just as I'm sure there are people who feel they are not better now.
I highly doubt there are many people who, looking back at a time when poorer people suffered needlessly due to lack of funds, or doctors had to treat them out of the kindness of their hearts, or poorer children not getting an education and being left with not much options except work as labourers or marriage, would think they aren't better off now. Unless they're a rich sociopath or something who doesn't give a toss about other people suffering.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96
Why do you think these countries can afford to do this?
Because of the aid they receive from us in various forms, not the least of which is providing for their national defence.
You don't provide for the national defence of Finland at least, and Australia has a decent military that does its bit.
Arent you that say "commies, socialists,dem, lefties, anarchists" as if they are all the same and interchangable concepts?? LOL, the forum is full of this, you right wingers have no idea what the left is or what all this ideologies mean and you group it alltogether and in your head it only means "those who arent right wing"
But if someone calls you nazis you get all outraged and report, meanwhile you call anyone who doesnt agree with you all this names and ideologies as if they were the same!
Also, nice way to deflect the point about freedom not being equal for everyone
hitler (german fascism), fascism, socialism, communism, Naziism, Marxism are all progressive left
liberals (ie progressives) were the one here IN AMERICA that were supporting hitler in the 1930's
Progressives also believed that industrialization had led to social “disintegration” and materialistic decadence throughout America.
progressives looked favorably on the policies and ideals of Italian and German fascism in the 1920s and 1930s;
Quote:
""Fascism is a system in which the government leaves nominal ownership of the means of production in the hands of private individuals but exercises control by means of regulatory legislation and reaps most of the profit by means of heavy taxation. In effect, fascism is simply a more subtle form of government ownership than is socialism."" Mussolini
hmmm taxation and regulation......the liberals two favorite subjects
Mussolini was a leading socialist figure who, during World War I, turned away from internationalism in favor of Italian nationalism and called the blend Fascism.
A statist ideology, fascism uses politics as the tool to transform society from atomized individuals into an organic whole. It does so by exalting the state over the individual, expert knowledge over democracy, enforced consensus over debate, and socialism over capitalism.
In America...
Woodrow Wilson's Progressivism featured a nationalist, imperialist, program, enabled by the exigencies of World War I.
Franklin D. Roosevelt's "fascist New Deal" built on and extended Wilson's government.
Quote:
FDR gave a speech in Troy, NY, 3 March 1912, in which he laid out his philosophy - he(FDR) placed the "liberty of the community" over "the liberty of the individual."
Quote:
"If the personal freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution inhibit the government's ability to govern the people, we should look to limit those guarantees." bill clinton
AND Hillary Clinton hoped "to insert the state deep into family life," an essential step of the totalitarian project.
you do realize that socialism, social democracy, communism, nazisism, fascism, and American liberalism are all part of the same family.
its not that they are interchangeable...but they are all part of the same family
That sounds very poetic, NxtGen, though entirely unoriginal. You know how to play the role -- online, at least.
So, when are you going to become an independent frontiersman? When are you going to move into the wilderness to make it on your own? When are you going to build your own home, entirely protect your own property from predators, raise your own livestock, hunt and prepare your own meat, grow your own fruit and vegetables, etc? When is this happening?
One question: can you run a block?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NxtGen
Oh blah blah blah, /derp /derp /derp duh duh duh.
Sorry, but if your message is going to be a condescending blither of insult and mocking, you can run along.
d
My message wasn't a blither of insult and mocking - as you can see, I asked you questions. And you didn't answer them. Conveniently.
Those questions are directed at everyone on this thread who thinks like you do, by the way.
When are y'all going to live like true libertarians or, as at least one poster proudly calls himself, "anarchists"? When are y'all going to do more than just talk a big game?
Let's get this straight: you guys are "anarchists" and "libertarians." Yet many/most of you live in towns or cities (many of you, in fact, are in the suburbs), drive on public roads, likely enjoy health insurance subsidized by your employers, buy food (and beer. PLENTY of beer) -- at the grocery store, watch cable TV and Hollywood movies, have Netflix and Amazon Prime, and have been dependent on public utilities, services, and amenities in many other ways your entire lives. And, God knows, many of you aren't exactly physically active. Not too sure you'd be able to defend yourselves (without guns, at least).
It all sounds pretty soft and civilized to me. But, yeah, sure, you guys are "rugged individualists."
I'll buy your narrative when y'all go it alone. Move to the wilderness and live off-the-grid. Build a home with your own hands. Hunt for and grow your own food. Raise livestock. Live off the land. You'll all have to get up off the couch long enough to do it, though. Living off the land is HARD work!
Last edited by newdixiegirl; 05-09-2017 at 01:34 PM..
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LOL, the forum is full of this, you right wingers have no idea what the left is or what all this ideologies mean and you group it alltogether and in your head it only means "those who arent right wing"
