Why do conservatives call the far-left fascists? (illegal, weapon, ideologies)
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As far as I can tell, the logic progresses as such: Fascism bad. Left-wing bad. Left-wing must be fascists.
You don't even understand the meaning of the word.
The word comes from the Greek/Latin word Fasces, which meant to bind together.
Take a handful of straws, bind them together so they can't move and you'll have fasces.
Fascists are any group that refuses any thought contrary to their own. They are bound together.
Progressives are fascists because they do not tolerate any thought other than their own. ALL extremists are fascists. Fascism is not a political stance. You can be any flavor of any ideology, and if you cannot accept any viewpoint other than your own, YOU are a fascist.
Think of it as being closed minded and demanding everyone else must be as closed minded as you. North Korea would be the best example of a fascist dictatorship calling itself a DEMOCRATIC PEOPLES REPUBLIC. It's a total oxymoron.
Quote:
Originally Posted by radiolibre99
Now this is an interesting take. I think this can work, if people knew the origins of the word. But most don't and only attribute it to the historical political movement of early 20th century. So conservatives aren't using it in that regard. They're using it as a slur against the far left in order to paint them like Nazis, i.e. repressive authoritarians.
BUT communists and even anarchists (if you read the history of the Spanish Civil War) were just as if not MORE repressive. The Communists wanted TOTAL ideological control.
So no I still think conservatives are being intellectually lazy on this one and it would serve their case more if they were to just call these people communists and started educating people on just what the communists did. And what anarchists did in America in the early part of the 20th century.
You are about half right. The REAL problem is the left extremists who are calling the right "fascists" are actually fascists! When you use terms like "settled" and "racist" and "phobe" you shut down the dialogue. When a group-think herd mentality usurps common sense, you become a totalitarian fascist. So, they are arguing against fascism, by being absolute fascists.
It would be like a black man exclaiming blacks are racists to blacks!
It's a sad state when people show off their ignorance so blatantly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by radiolibre99
I am a conservative through and through but on this particular topic I am really embarrassed for conservatives and think they're being intellectually lazy and showing a serious lack of critical thinking.
Don't think of this in a conservative or liberal box. We are witnessing the demise of common sense on all sides. If you want to point a finger, point it to the education system which has been taken over by ideologues. "A mind is a terrible thing to waste", yet that is exactly what they have done for their own insidious reasons.
You know it seems that being labelled, correctly, as fascists really bothers you.
Tyrion Lannister gives the best advice: ...Never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you.
Embrace the name, make it yours and it will have no power over your actions.
Are you saying this thinking that I am liberal-left wing?
I am a conservative Republican and I am trying to strengthen the conservative argument by saying that we don't have to be intellectually lazy by throwing around these useless buzzwords. Do the far left behave like "fascists", sure, I get that. I get that is what you guys mean. But they're not "fascists" in the truest sense of the word. They're not ideologically fascist.
A better word would be authoritarian. They're Stalin-esque. I am saying that calling them communists and anarchists and pointing the history of these dangerous political movements does more to hurt their growth in this country than simply labeling them fascists. It's intellectually lazy.
You don't even understand the meaning of the word.
The word comes from the Greek/Latin word Fasces, which meant to bind together.
Take a handful of straws, bind them together so they can't move and you'll have fasces.
Fascists are any group that refuses any thought contrary to their own. They are bound together.
Progressives are fascists because they do not tolerate any thought other than their own. ALL extremists are fascists. Fascism is not a political stance. You can be any flavor of any ideology, and if you cannot accept any viewpoint other than your own, YOU are a fascist.
Think of it as being closed minded and demanding everyone else must be as closed minded as you. North Korea would be the best example of a fascist dictatorship calling itself a DEMOCRATIC PEOPLES REPUBLIC. It's a total oxymoron.
You are about half right. The REAL problem is the left extremists who are calling the right "fascists" are actually fascists! When you use terms like "settled" and "racist" and "phobe" you shut down the dialogue. When a group-think herd mentality usurps common sense, you become a totalitarian fascist. So, they are arguing against fascism, by being absolute fascists.
It would be like a black man exclaiming blacks are racists to blacks!
It's a sad state when people show off their ignorance so blatantly.
You don't even understand the meaning of the word.
The word comes from the Greek/Latin word Fasces, which meant to bind together.
Take a handful of straws, bind them together so they can't move and you'll have fasces.
Fascists are any group that refuses any thought contrary to their own. They are bound together.
Progressives are fascists because they do not tolerate any thought other than their own. ALL extremists are fascists. Fascism is not a political stance. You can be any flavor of any ideology, and if you cannot accept any viewpoint other than your own, YOU are a fascist.
Think of it as being closed minded and demanding everyone else must be as closed minded as you. North Korea would be the best example of a fascist dictatorship calling itself a DEMOCRATIC PEOPLES REPUBLIC. It's a total oxymoron.
You are about half right. The REAL problem is the left extremists who are calling the right "fascists" are actually fascists! When you use terms like "settled" and "racist" and "phobe" you shut down the dialogue. When a group-think herd mentality usurps common sense, you become a totalitarian fascist. So, they are arguing against fascism, by being absolute fascists.
It would be like a black man exclaiming blacks are racists to blacks!
It's a sad state when people show off their ignorance so blatantly.
What? No. That is utterly wrong. They are acting "fascist" like but these people if you understand their ideological roots aren't Fascist. Suppressing free speech isn't just fascist and wasn't just done by fascists and didn't start happening until fascists did it. Communists did this too and way before Mussolini or Hitler stepped foot into office.
Are you guys using fascist as a verb? That their actions are "fascistic"? That to suppress free speech is to be a fascist? So any suppression of free speech is fascist? I can kind of understand where you're coming with this but it lacks nuance.
So the Communists in Maoist China were fascists? And do you mean that they were ideologically fascist or behaving like fascists?
I've never understood why conservatives call knee jerk reactionary far left agitators such as Anti-FA (Anti-fascist) fascists. I mean is that the only word conservatives know to use against such people?
Have they ever read George Orwell's Homage to Catalonia? Hemingway's For Whom the Bell Tolls?
Have they ever read Animal Farm? Do they not know the history of the Soviet Union and suppression of thought?
The Cultural Revolution under Mao? In Maoist China intellectuals with different opinions to the state were hunted.
I believe Pol Pot thought eyeglasses were a sign of western intellectualism. The Cuban Revolutionaries supposedly outlawed the saxophone in Havana nightclubs because it was invented in Belgium and it represented western imperialism. I doubt that last story is true but it wouldn't surprise me.
Point is, why don't conservatives just call them what they are? Communists and Anarchists? They're extremely authoritarian and knee jerk and will shut down opposition they deem offensive. You don't need to call them blackshirts or fascists. That distorts history because people won't look into the crimes and history of communism which made the blackshirts look like choir boys.
Do conservatives do this because they assume people won't understand the history and thus resort to a quick buzzword because fascists are more well known for shutting down dissent?
Because they are fascists.
Fascism is a mutation of leftism. Mussolini was a leftist before he was a fascist.
Conservatives call left wingers fascists because they do not want that name to be associated with them. They wish to hide their true agenda. It's well known that fascism is an inherently right wing ideology. For someone to tell you otherwise is either outright lying to you or is completely ignorant in regards to world history. The similarities to modern alt-righters is unmistakable and chilling to say the least.
We all know that right wingers are intolerant of people who are different than them such as gays, transgenders, atheists, etc. This fact cannot be disputed. They do everything in their power to marginalize these groups whom they find distasteful. Hitler and his fascist party did the same thing with the Jews back in the 30s and 40s but to a much more horrifying outcome.
They'll also play the victim and say they are the ones who are being persecuted because people are speaking out against their hatred. They try to label the people who stand up to them as the bigots. At least that's what they'd like for you to believe, never admitting that they are the ones who are bigoted and full of hate.
Let's face it, if modern right wingers had their way there would be no one allowed to live in this country who isn't white, straight, and Christian. You hear them say this all the time; they want to turn the nation into a Christian theocracy and eliminate the groups that I mentioned. There's no denying that. In fact, you can see examples of it right here on this board.
Every day you see a Trumpling come in here and declare that he/she wishes that our Congress would just get out of the way so Trump can steamroll his agenda over the American people unincumbered whether they want it or not. In essence, they see him as their Hitler. Someone who will rule the nation with an iron fist.
Take a look at any of the right wing white nationalist websites and tell me if you don't see any swastikas and other Nazi imagery on there. It's all over the place and Trump has done nothing but emboldened them to come out of the shadows. Their aim is to deceive and they have started a massive campaign to do just that.
There is no such thing as fascist in the abstract except as buzzword slur. A slur that leftists employ on conservatives because they believe that conservative ideals are reactionary and akin to fascism. That is why they call us fascists. Not because we are authoritarian but because we hold "reactionary" views to them and have the potential to become ideologically fascist.
So in their twisted view they're more logically consistent with their slurs than we are throwing it back at them. A fascist is subscriber to extreme authoritarian right wing and reactionary views that are usually characterized by anti-democracy, anti-liberalism, pro-monarchy, pro-nationalism. American conservatives are not fascists because most if not all Republican conservatives believe in Republicanism, are anti-Monarchy and believe in upholding the liberal ideals of the American Revolution. We are "right wing" only in the American sense, not the European sense, where right wing takes on a whole new meaning.
Yet, I was suggesting that conservatives stop the buzzword namecalling and start engaging in actual history by placing these far left groups in the right context. Tie them to their ideological forefathers and bring up their ideological roots and the history of what those ideas left behind.
How hard is that? Instead of resorting to immature buzzwords like "Fascist", actually educate people.
Instead I am getting hate from conservatives and illogical arguments about why we should keep using that slur.
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