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I agree with you because of the context that you put it in. Others in this thread seemed to have too much of an emotional investment in making these military geniuses diminutive. Their emotional investment from the left has the same stench that comes from the extreme right.
Militarily Robert E. Lee deserves the same credit as a Bradley, a Patton, or an Eisenhower. Is the sense that you use the word loser, I guess that McClellan deserves to be called a winner. Militarily McClellan was certainly not a winner.
McClellan was on the winning side. So he would not be seen as a loser.
He, like Lee was also well respected by his soldiers.
And Lee is not like a Bradley, Patton, or Eisenhower (who became a president...)
All of them were a part of the "winning" side.
FWIW Lee is a very interesting historical figure IMO. However, much of what I've read about him shows that he did not agree totally with south and secession. He felt a commitment to his home state of Virginia but his apprehension IMO is telling about his character. IMO he was conflicted and not as truly dedicated to the actual "cause" as many other confederates were.
Also, people seem not to remember or know that Arlington National Cemetery is on the grounds of Robert E. Lee's home. The land and his home were taken from him during/after the war in order to make sure he could never return home as a punishment for his service to the Confederacy. However, over time, his home has been turned into a monument for Lee. Arlington is in the DC metro area and if people want to honor him, they can go there and visit his home and learn about him and his military service.
That war is over Vinnie. If you are smart you will direct your energies to what passes for slavery in modern times like denying people overtime pay if they make more than $11.38 an hour or the lack of a meaningful minimum wage. A national minimum wage of $15 per hour might entice people off of welfare.
My family is from the south. I'm no Vinnie. Why are you bringing up welfare?
The Civil War is over and the south lost. The legacy of the confederacy didn't do the white trash any favors. Too many people feeling sorry for themselves. Let go of the romanticism and get to work.
People need to take action to better themselves to earn more money. It is a continuous process. Nowadays, learning new skills to make a living is worse than a bad marriage: it never ends.
I had three jobs in college and I've changed careers a couple of times to keep up with the times. If I did it others can do it too.
BTW, people SHOULD be paid overtime past 40 hours. I don't vote for people who are against overtime pay.
Lee chose to defend slavery. That's what "his conscience" dictated. The confederate "way of life": live graciously off the labor of enslaved human beings and tell the white trash to consider themselves lucky that they are not slaves. That's objective.
Conscience and the Confederacy? Please.
I kindly suggest you study some more.
At the start of the Civil War, Lincoln had no goal of freeing the slaves. The initial objective was to preserve the union. Even the Emancipation Proclamation was only aimed at those states that were in rebellion.
Try being a bit less emotional in your responses, and I might respect your posts.
McClellan was on the winning side. So he would not be seen as a loser.
He, like Lee was also well respected by his soldiers.
And Lee is not like a Bradley, Patton, or Eisenhower (who became a president...)
All of them were a part of the "winning" side.
FWIW Lee is a very interesting historical figure IMO. However, much of what I've read about him shows that he did not agree totally with south and secession. He felt a commitment to his home state of Virginia but his apprehension IMO is telling about his character. IMO he was conflicted and not as truly dedicated to the actual "cause" as many other confederates were.
Also, people seem not to remember or know that Arlington National Cemetery is on the grounds of Robert E. Lee's home. The land and his home were taken from him during/after the war in order to make sure he could never return home as a punishment for his service to the Confederacy. However, over time, his home has been turned into a monument for Lee. Arlington is in the DC metro area and if people want to honor him, they can go there and visit his home and learn about him and his military service.
Good post. Thank you for the new information regarding Lee.
Incidentally, McClellan was relieved by Lincoln at one point when he told Lincoln that his horses were too tired to go to battle.
I understand that point, but you missed mine. Removing statues is a ridiculous gesture as it removes reminders of our past. There are Confederate monuments at battlefields like Gettysburg, show where these men fought, and died. Should we remove those too?
It's nuance I think things like tombs of the soldier, memorials about battles yes, sure I can understand. Statues to thought leaders not so much. You can honor unnamed soldiers, people who fought in a battle from either side, I don't have a problem with removal of statues when they honor generals and leaders.
It's nuance I think things like tombs of the soldier, memorials about battles yes, sure I can understand. Statues to thought leaders not so much. You can honor unnamed soldiers, people who fought in a battle from either side, I don't have a problem with removal of statues when they honor generals and leaders.
I've been to Gettysburg to see the Monument to the Unit my husband's Great-Grandfather fought under. Yes, Union. Yes, Confederate also. I did not see a Confederate Flag flying there. Only US Flags. There is no Confederate States of America in 2017. No statues of either side's Generals in the war.
It was Non-Partisan purely honoring the men who fought and died in that battle; not promoting either side of the War. That IS the difference.
In 14% black Lexington, blacks perpetrate almost all of the violent crime! I'm absolutely positive that once the statues are removed the violent crimes will drop to nearly zero! Oh happy day!
In 14% black Lexington, blacks perpetrate almost all of the violent crime! I'm absolutely positive that once the statues are removed the violent crimes will drop to nearly zero! Oh happy day!
Why do those on the right keep bringing up carnage, violent crime in the inner cities, black on black crime, ... ?
Regardless of the topic, this is always thrown out in some sort of halfwitted rebuttal.
No one is claiming that inner city violence will go down when the statues are removed, or that inner city crime isn't a problem.
Now eventually, if we can ever get past the KKK and white supremacy, and get to treating everyone with dignity and respect we may be able to make some inroads.
But taking down statues isn't going to change things in a snap. Sounds like a silly thing to believe.
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I've been to Gettysburg to see the Monument to the Unit my husband's Great-Grandfather fought under. Yes, Union. Yes, Confederate also. I did not see a Confederate Flag flying there. Only US Flags. There is no Confederate States of America in 2017. No statues of either side's Generals in the war.
