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But wasn't slavery legal at the time? Not to defend slavery but what makes it so horrid for men to take up arms in defense of a legal right? Many of those men also served in the US Army prior to the Civil War too, it's not as if they were outside agitators who'd never served their country.
IMO all this energetic outrage over decades old inanimate objects would be better used to protest things that affect us today like involvement in asinine wars of choice of no benefit to the US. Think what you will but those statues cause no harm.
To answer your question... again context... If a statue included a man whipping people existed and had been originally commissioned to 'honor' Horatio P. Slaveholder for his act of creating the town of "Saveholderville" in the middle of the 16th century when slave holding was legal and seen by the general public as normal activity, and Mr. Slaveholder had also been recognized for putting down a slave revolt, then I'd say it would not be unheard of to find such statues. But since 500+ years have passed and we are modern civilized people who recognize that slave holding is an immoral, reprehensible, and and inhuman act, then people would see no value in that status and out of shame demolish it. Even if it had artistic merit, I would bet that most would want it destroyed for what it represents.
Arguing and the energy being spent fighting over these confederate status is (to me) a similar issue. But it is not just about the statues. it is also about what they represent and what that representation says about our society. The statues are a symptom of a huge problem far more than innocuous - and getting rid of them is more than just a protest. This is one step in remediation of a this country's birth sin. A sin that is just as troubling as any other issue we face. That is why removal of these statues are causing such an uproar.
i think people need to tone down the hate and vitriol against the southern leaders of a legally formed COUNTRY.
They lost, so they really have no right to dictate the terms in how they are regarded. So, in the end who is the special snowflake? I think it's the people that demand respect for a failed state that deserves be relegated to the dustbin of history?
Face it: America is changing. Demographically, culturally, economically. It always has been changing. It's about keeping up with the times.
They weren't fighting for slavery. Why can't you understand people were fighting for country?
As if the north cared about the health and welfare of blacks. The north was racist. They didn't care about freedom for blacks or did you miss the riots in New York over not wanting to fight for blacks?
This is an important concept. In truth, many soldiers of the South were fighting more for their States than for the Country as a whole. Most of them had never been outside of their own community in their entire lives, not to mention their own state. The state was the primary political identifier for each organized troop; just look at the monuments at Gettysburg.
Many of the regular soldiers were also raised alongside blacks, and never owned black people in their lives. They simply couldn't afford to, nor would they have even then. In many rural communities blacks and whites lived in close quarters and had trade, etc. That didn't exist as openly in the North, where racism was touted as being bad but was still practiced in reality. We need to realize that there was not a clear system of "North wanted to free the slaves = good" v "South wanted slavery = bad" at all.
Another thing people need to realize is that not only soldiers, but the general populace, actually revered military leaders like Robert E. Lee. He was born the next county over from mine and his birthplace is still hugely popular. The man was loved by so many as an honorable soldier and man. You can take down a statue of him, but that's not going to change the history and the reverence, and may do more harm than good. In the long run, how on earth does a piece of wrought metal hurt someone anyway? SMDH.
Not true. Most of Europe had abolished slavery before 1861, as well as Canada. The southern states knew it was wrong, but remained obstinate. The US banned the Atlantic Slave Trade in the 1700s, if they did not know slavery was wrong, why would they do that?
Also, there is no room for incrementalism in a modernized society when it comes to OWNING human beings. It was a moral imperative that it had to end. Unfortunately, the south was anything but modernized. It was a pitiful, antiquated aristocracy.
The public opinion tide had turned on slavery by the time of the Civil War.
Uncle Tom's Cabin was published to considerable acclaim in 1852.
Canada and most of Europe had abolished slavery by then.
Southern states were on the wrong side of history here.
Offensive? This word seems to get thrown around for everything these days. The confederate war is a part of the United State's past whether it offends you or not. Trying to just erase it will not happen. Both sides thought they were right at the time.
What is even worse is the fact that we wiped out all the Native Americans that lived here before us so we could take their land. It is a terrible thing we did but it is part of our past that will always remain in the history books.
His ability as an engineer is subjective, like anyone else at their job, no? If someone feels his accomplishments are worth it in the context of him being an engineer then that should be good enough, right?
Here's where it gets tricky in terms of history though...
He was in the U.S. Corps of Engineers prior to the Civil War. As a young engineer he worked on Cockspur Island in Georgia at Fort Pulaski.
The fort would be seized by the Confederacy and later fought over with the Union winning the battle.
So how do we feel about this one? Lee was instrumental in setting up Fort Pulaski as a UNITED STATES ENGINEER UNDER THE UNITED STATES ARMY . He also returned to the fort to help fortify it as the war began.
Plaque or monument recognizing his engineering solely for his original work on Cockspur Island?
As I said, if he was honored for significant engineering skill that would be one thing. I'd have no problem with that. I have no problem with him based on what he believed in back then. He was a man of his times. BUT, I certainly don't think he should have a place of honor based almost solely on those beliefs in a modern world that rejects slavery. Times change. His thoughts and values of 150+ years ago are no longer acceptable - and more important - no longer honorable when you take that word literally.
And also as I have said multiple times, if you wish to honor him for being a standout in his times - for his civil war activities, feel free to do so, but do so on your own dime, on your own property - not mine.
Last edited by blktoptrvl; 08-16-2017 at 01:06 PM..
Why can't the right understand that the president is supped to represent all Americans not just the 30% or so that voted for him.
I would say he understands that better than you do. You want him to represent everybody except the ones who voted for him. Anyone who is an American citizen is supposed to be represented by him but they voted for him because of his policies. You can't expect him to start thinking like the person we didn't vote for.
What's lost on many of you is that even David Duke as a person should have his respect. We don't have to agree with a person in order to treat them with respect. I worked for the public more than 28 years and came to realize that a person who came through the door should be treated just as another person who came through the door that I agree with politically. Each one had a right to gain the knowledge I was capable of giving and they were free not to treat me in the same way. It is called being a professional. I was being paid to do a particular job. I left my feelings at home. I am retired now and say what I please but boy, I earned my retirement. Most of the people I served had no idea what my politics is, nor did my boss. It was none of their business.
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