Law enforcement officers please answer a few questions (drug, FBI, regular)
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If you are a law enforcement officer, help me understand a few things.
NOTHING on this thread is meant to be disparaging, nor is it related to any particular case.
When you come upon a person with a weapon in hand, who does not respond to requests to drop the weapon...and might advance toward you, why is he shot dead??
Is there a reason why a wounding shot to the arm or leg could not be used instead of deadly force??? It seems that would incapacitate enough until he is handcuffed, but maybe not.
Also, when taking someone to the ground, why do some officers use holds that are not approved or that can cause harm???
I completely support all law enforcement and appreciate how you face danger daily. Just wondering what YOU feel as we continue to have shootings that end with dead men and women, even children, under what seems to the public to be questionable circumstances.
PLEASE, no untoward remarks regarding this post or answers.
If you are a law enforcement officer, help me understand a few things.
NOTHING on this thread is meant to be disparaging, nor is it related to any particular case.
When you come upon a person with a weapon in hand, who does not respond to requests to drop the weapon...and might advance toward you, why is he shot dead??
Is there a reason why a wounding shot to the arm or leg could not be used instead of deadly force??? It seems that would incapacitate enough until he is handcuffed, but maybe not.
Also, when taking someone to the ground, why do some officers use holds that are not approved or that can cause harm???
I completely support all law enforcement and appreciate how you face danger daily. Just wondering what YOU feel as we continue to have shootings that end with dead men and women, even children, under what seems to the public to be questionable circumstances.
PLEASE, no untoward remarks regarding this post or answers.
Yes. If deadly force is justified you shoot to stop, not injure or maim. And the surest way to stop an assailant without missing is to aim for center mass. If deadly force is not justified the cop shouldn't shoot at all, but use tasers, pepper spray, or other non-lethal means.
If you are a law enforcement officer, help me understand a few things.
NOTHING on this thread is meant to be disparaging, nor is it related to any particular case.
When you come upon a person with a weapon in hand, who does not respond to requests to drop the weapon...and might advance toward you, why is he shot dead??
Because someone with a weapon is a deadly threat who might kill you or someone else. Not everyone who is shot is shot dead, many survive. Cops don't shoot to kill, they shoot to stop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatblueheron
Is there a reason why a wounding shot to the arm or leg could not be used instead of deadly force??? It seems that would incapacitate enough until he is handcuffed, but maybe not.
Shooting someone in the leg is deadly force. You can kill someone by shooting them in the leg if you hit their femoral artery.
Most cops would miss if they aimed for the hand or leg, hell most shooters would miss. If you are willing to risk your life and try to hit the hand go ahead, but you'll more than likely miss.
I was walking down a street in Manhattan during the day and a large man ran up to me flashing a large butcher knife in my face and asked me a question. I always thought if I was ever threatened physically I would run. I froze. I couldn't move. I couldn't speak. He didn't hurt me, left me, and walked down the street. I didn't stay to see what happened after that.
We never know how we will react in a life-threatening situation unless trained how to react. Police are trained to shoot to kill when their life is threatened. I wouldn't second guess that training as it saves police lives daily. Shooting in the leg might make the perpetrator more dangerous.
Epilogue to my story. I was lucky. On the news the evening of my encounter, a woman had been stabbed to death on the same street the man came up to me. I never found out if the knife wielding man was the same man who murdered that woman.
Last edited by texan2yankee; 09-19-2017 at 01:47 PM..
If you are a law enforcement officer, help me understand a few things.
NOTHING on this thread is meant to be disparaging, nor is it related to any particular case.
When you come upon a person with a weapon in hand, who does not respond to requests to drop the weapon...and might advance toward you, why is he shot dead??
Is there a reason why a wounding shot to the arm or leg could not be used instead of deadly force??? It seems that would incapacitate enough until he is handcuffed, but maybe not.
Also, when taking someone to the ground, why do some officers use holds that are not approved or that can cause harm???
I completely support all law enforcement and appreciate how you face danger daily. Just wondering what YOU feel as we continue to have shootings that end with dead men and women, even children, under what seems to the public to be questionable circumstances.
PLEASE, no untoward remarks regarding this post or answers.
Shooting a gun out of a perps hand is only performed in the movies.
Anatomy lesson, shot in the leg? hit femoral artery and dead in 20 seconds. One of the most deadly shots.
Can you say richocet?
You try to hit a flailing arm or leg when your adrenalin is thru the roof and being charged or otherwise approached by a perp who refuses to obey a very simple and loud command. "Winging a perp only works in the movies works for Wyatt Earp, The Rifleman, Paladin and The Lone Ranger.
If you are a law enforcement officer, help me understand a few things.
NOTHING on this thread is meant to be disparaging, nor is it related to any particular case.
When you come upon a person with a weapon in hand, who does not respond to requests to drop the weapon...and might advance toward you, why is he shot dead??
Is there a reason why a wounding shot to the arm or leg could not be used instead of deadly force??? It seems that would incapacitate enough until he is handcuffed, but maybe not.
Also, when taking someone to the ground, why do some officers use holds that are not approved or that can cause harm???
I completely support all law enforcement and appreciate how you face danger daily. Just wondering what YOU feel as we continue to have shootings that end with dead men and women, even children, under what seems to the public to be questionable circumstances.
PLEASE, no untoward remarks regarding this post or answers.
To add on to what budlight wrote:
- All law enforcement are taught that if the weapon leaves the holster, a minimum of two shots are fired at center of mass or largest target area presented. NO DEPARTMENT TEACHES, CONDONES OR ALLOWS "shooting to wound." You fire that weapon if your life is in mortal danger and the choice is your life or the bad guy's.
- If you think subduing someone coming at you with any sort of weapon is easy, try it with a friend. Have them hold a Sharpie marker and start 10 yards away. Their goal is to put marks on you with that marker, your goal is to get that marker out of their hands without getting any ink on yourself. Every ink spot or mark on you is a stab wound or laceration btw. Winner gets a free 12 pack. Go ahead and give it a whirl, see how you do.
- If you think putting handcuffs on someone who does not feel like complying is easy, try it with a friend. Get a pair of actual handcuffs and try to put them on your friend. The bet is, if you can get them on inside of 10 minutes, you win. If not, your friend wins. Winner gets a free 12 pack. Go ahead and give it a whirl, see how you do.
See, anyone who went to law enforcement school and/or has done martial arts training knows how hard it is to handcuff someone who doesn't want the cuffs on or subdue someone who doesn't want to be subdued, as well how fast someone can close 10 yards of distance and put hurt on you. We used big sharpies to show how fast/easily someone with a knife, starting 10 yards away, can cut/stab you even if you get your gun drawn. People die from being stabbed/lacerated...really.
During one practice session, we were told to not let ourselves get handcuffed. When I was "perp" (I weighed about 205 at the time), three classmates actually inflicting pain (as much as they were allowed, which was a good bit mind you) on me couldn't get cuffs on me and they called time at 15 minutes. And that was about half the class, same story. It's a lot freaking harder than you might think, and that is with buddies on gym mats. Now imagine deranged, drugged out and/or drunk, not your friend, unknown motivations and oh yeah, on the street where s**t is real. It's a lot harder than armchair QBs think it is.
So again, I invite you to try it. I don't say that to be mean, flippant or dismissive. I sincerely mean it. By all means, find out how hard it really is, even in friendly, mock scenarios. It is wonderful for gaining perspective.
Last edited by Volobjectitarian; 09-19-2017 at 01:55 PM..
OP, a better question to ask would have been, instead of why don't cops shoot the leg or arm, why do American cops have to shoot so often compared to other countries? What makes American suspects more threatening than others? I think that's a better question to ask
If you are a law enforcement officer, help me understand a few things.
NOTHING on this thread is meant to be disparaging, nor is it related to any particular case.
1. When you come upon a person with a weapon in hand, who does not respond to requests to drop the weapon...and might advance toward you, why is he shot dead??
2. Is there a reason why a wounding shot to the arm or leg could not be used instead of deadly force??? It seems that would incapacitate enough until he is handcuffed, but maybe not.
3. Also, when taking someone to the ground, why do some officers use holds that are not approved or that can cause harm???
I completely support all law enforcement and appreciate how you face danger daily. Just wondering what YOU feel as we continue to have shootings that end with dead men and women, even children, under what seems to the public to be questionable circumstances.
PLEASE, no untoward remarks regarding this post or answers.
1. That depends on the distance. If the suspect is far away like >20 yards or in Kansas and not firing the weapon, he wouldn't be shot. If the suspect is within 21 yards, he would pose a grave threat to the officers. If the suspect is firing the weapon, he would be stopped before he fires the second shot.
2. Only in Hollywood one can shoot to wound. Nobody in the world except for Superman and Deadshot can shoot to wound a moving human target with a handgun under the influence of adrenaline. Just not humanly possible. However, police officers do not shoot to kill - they shoot to stop. By law, as soon as the threat stops, one must stop shooting.
3. I highly doubt this would go through anybody's mind when wrestling with a suspect who may potentially kill you, "Gee, this move is banned by my department, I'd better not use it."
4. The reason many police officers must fire multiple shots to stop a suspect is because it's very finicky to stop a human unless the bullet strikes the vital area. In Miami FBI Shootout, the suspect was wounded with a fatal shot at the beginning of the gunfire - meaning he would die in a few minutes regardless the treatment, but he still managed to kill multiple FBI agents. People regularly survive heart and head shots. Even the heart is blown to pieces, the person may still have 15 seconds to do harm, plenty to kill multiple people.
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